Sunday School | Baptism Overview

I was just saying we're so excited to continue meeting on a semi-regular basis to continue the conversation of what it looks like for us to be spiritually investing in the lives of our children, our grandchildren, and the children of our church. So thank you for being here this morning. We have the privilege of getting to pick the brain of the bishop. That's what I should have called it. A lot to pick. But let me pray for our time together, and then we're gonna get started.

Lord Jesus, we acknowledge your presence here among us. Thank you that you are the God who dwells with us and in us and that you never leave us alone. Jesus, we pray that your spirit would lead our time. God, we talk about baptism and confirmation and discipleship. God, would you set a fire in our hearts and a vision for our children to know and love you? And God, also just for us to know and love you. So we pray that you'd encourage each one of us, equip us for the calling of parenting that you've given us. And we thank you so much for Quig, his leadership, and his wisdom. We pray that you bless our time together in Jesus' name. Amen.

Alright. Well, Quig, will you just introduce yourself a little bit for those of us in the room who have not been here for thirty-some years? Not everyone knows the Lawrence family.

Hi. I'm Quigg, pastor of a church that has one microphone that works, and this is great to keep us humble. Annette and I moved here actually—we came the first time in November '88. I remember because it was opening day of deer season. And I was not too happy to be interviewing for a job on the opening day of deer season. But my wife elbowed me and said, "Honey, we're unemployed and we have a kid. So you will go." Yes, ma'am.

In Africa, they say—or in Rwanda, they say—the man is the head. Would you agree, men? The man is the head. The woman is the neck. The neck turns the head. So I listen to my wife. That's what I got to say for starters. She's a good one to listen to.

Okay. But Quig has been rector here for how many years?

Thirty-four-ish.

Thirty-four years. And so I was so excited to hear him share a little bit about the journey that he has had with our church when it comes to baptism and confirmation of the congregation because I know it's been a journey for you. It hasn't always stayed exactly the same. So will you just share? Do you wanna sit down?

No.

Okay.

The Journey with Baptism

Journey is such a polite word. I was almost kicked out of the Episcopal Church because I had Baptist views.

The only church with one mic that's faced the wrong way. Okay. So anyway, I was raised in a fairly liberal church. But people that are raised on the left when they meet Jesus tend to go hard to the right, and people that are raised kind of in a legalistic, more fundamentalist, rules-oriented way, not so much grace in relationship, tend to default the other way. They go crazy.

So once I became a Christian, I thought, "What is all this infant baptism? This is like hocus pocus. I don't like it." I mean, I have to do it because I'm a priest, but I used to kind of hold my nose and do it and just think, "Well, it's basically a dedication. We're getting the baby wet." I was very resolute in my beliefs. I don't believe in faith by proxy. How can you have faith for somebody else? What are we doing? Like, Adolf Hitler was baptized. Do you think Adolf Hitler was saved? I mean, if you push it to the extreme, you could say, "Well, the pope could go to the seven seas, bless them, touch the water, then everyone who goes in those waters this spring and summer will be saved." So I had all the right theology in my head. I had books arguing pro and con infant baptism. But we did believers baptism and we dedicated children. And so a lot of people said, "You're a very bad Anglican." I'm like, "Yeah, probably. It was alright. I slept well at night."

But what happened one time is I decided to open my Bible and just write down every time somebody or a group of people was baptized. And how many would you think would be in the Bible? I mean, it's a big book—66 books. Your Bible might have 1,800, 2,000 pages. How many different occasions of Christian baptism do you see in the New Testament? Take a guess.

I got a hundred, I got a hundred fifty, I got a two hundred, I got three thousand.

Three thousand out of that day? At least six or seven in Acts. Yeah. So, again, I'm not good at math and I'm a little attention-enriched. However, I counted—there were 10 occasions of baptism. Actually, I Googled it this week and I got different answers from different people, but when I went through the Bible, I found 10 different occasions of baptism.

How many of those involved entire households? The Philippian jailer, Stephanus, Crispus, Lydia, and I'm forgetting one.

Gaius.

Yes, Gaius. I don't know.

But anyway, there's five. So five out of the ten accounts of baptism involved entire households. But I already knew how to get around that because I knew what I believed. I'm like, well, yeah, sure they may have been some babies in the house crying in their diapers and asleep in the crib, but it says the word of God was preached to everyone in the household and then they were baptized. And so I rightly concluded in my mind that only believers—those who could confess faith in Christ—should be baptized. Otherwise we're in a slippery slope where we become like one of those churches that thinks we do infants, they get done, right? They get the water baptism, original sin is removed, and they're good. I just couldn't go there.

But then when I kept thinking about ten baptisms, five household baptisms—I've been to Israel. Trust me. If the man of the house becomes Muslim, everybody becomes Muslim. If the man becomes a Jew, everybody becomes a Jew. If the man becomes a Christian, the entire family does what the head of the household does.

And so I also was thinking so much about God's covenant. The PCA guys would say this stuff all the time: "the covenant, the covenant, the covenant." I'm like, whatever, dude. But the covenant's important. God made a covenant with His people in Genesis 15, and that was great and they're all going, "Yay, God. You made a covenant with us." The next thing in Genesis 17 is the sign of the covenant. And I'm thinking, all those who are plotting for the covenant probably weren't applauding—at least the men weren't applauding that loudly when they got to the sign of the covenant. Can you imagine? They go, "Okay, Lord, do you want me to tell these people to do what? What's the sign of the covenant?" Circumcision. That just hurts even hearing the name, the word. Circumcision. What a strange thing.

The other strange thing is, how do they know? Like if we're in the New Testament and there's a gathering, how do you know if somebody is circumcised or not? Do they have a special look about them? I don't understand that. But anyway, I guess the point would be, all Jewish boys—all of them, right?—were given the sign of the covenant. Now, scripture is very clear: not all of Israel is Israel. Only those who are circumcised in their heart.

So you can have—you could be a Jewish boy and be circumcised on the eighth day. Good for you. You're in the community of faith, all that, but you don't know the Lord. You've been given a sign. God's moving towards you, right? But at some point you gotta own it. And that's why they said, "Not all of Israel is Israel. Only those who are circumcised of heart."

Handling Different Views on Baptism

So you guys want to push into questions and feed me and get me going a little bit?

So how would you then, Quig, handle other views on other biblical views on baptism? So let's say that you come to this church and maybe you do feel a conviction about believer baptism only. How would we handle that as a church, or how would you handle that as our rector?

Punch them out. No, just kidding. I wouldn't do that. No, here's the thing. Christians disagree and they disagree fairly. I mean, there are scriptures we could go to that I could prove "once saved, always saved," and in the same Bible I could go and prove that it appears from scripture you can lose your salvation. So you can go to scriptures—especially if you're just picking a few—and you can make a very compelling case.

I don't think the mode or time of baptism is of ultimate importance except for one thing. One thing. The thing that is important and is worth fighting for and dying for is this: God always—God always—is the actor. He's the one that moves towards us. When we are blind and we can't see and we have no ability to make our hearts seek the Lord, He does it. And I think baptism is a beautiful picture, not just for infants or children but even adults. As one theologian says, baptism is always something that is done to you. It's not something you do. It's what the Lord has done.

And so if you have a different view, it's not like you're renouncing Jesus. I mean, I was forced to go back to seminary by my former bishop. I had to write a position paper. Fortunately, I found there was a guy named Gorham in England who was going to get kicked out of the church because he did not believe in infant baptism—especially he did not believe in baptismal regeneration, that if somebody hits the water, they're thereby a Christian. And it was argued, and the bishop took him to court, and then Gorham lost, and then he appealed to the Privy Council, and then Gorham won. They said, "You're not a heretic. You don't have to believe that regeneration or new birth happens automatically by going to the waters of baptism. Is it our hope? Yes. Is it our prayer? Yes."

But it's not automatic. Otherwise, Hitler would be a Christian.

So, what would you say to someone who had a child or maybe they were baptized as an infant but they are wanting to be now baptized as a believer? What would you say to that person?

There's one lord, one faith, one baptism. I say this as somebody who's been baptized twice. I was baptized as an infant. I had my parents who clearly at the time were not believers. My godparents were their fraternity brothers and sisters who nailed down about three Bloody Marys before they came for the service. It was a show.

Once I became a believer, I was with a bunch of Young Life kids and I'm like, hey, let's go baptize you guys in the river. That'd be cool. Dave Anderson, who was the head area director of Young Life back in 1990 or '91, said, "Hey, man. You ever been immersed?" I'm like, no, but I was sprinkled as a child. He says, "Well, come on, man. Let's do it." And I'm like, I don't know, man. One lord, one faith, one baptism—so I had a little quandary.

I said, "Lord, here's the thing. If the first baptism took, then what David is going to do to me is nothing more than me getting wet in the river. I've been baptized."

When I went for the second baptism with all my enthusiasm, my passion, my love for God behind it, I did it and I felt absolutely nothing. It was like the Lord said, "No, no, no, no. The first one counted. That's why you came to faith. That was part of what I was doing in your life."

It's not just a reward or star you get for being good or being in the church, but in baptism, God does something. He marks you. He gives you a title to become a son or daughter of God. Now, the title's there—you may receive it, you may not—but God has moved. He has acted.

So what I would say is if you disagree with that, we could go through the scriptures together. But at the end of the day, we're not going to have a punching match because you prefer a child to be baptized at ten and I think now. Children of promise, children with at least one Christian parent, children that the Bible says are set apart and holy. Not necessarily Christians, but God counts them set apart and holy. We give them the sign. At what point do we ever stop giving them the sign of the covenant?

I think whatever you call it, if you bring your kids before the Lord and your heart cries, "Lord, this kid is yours. I want you to move and to be his God or her God and fill him or her with the Holy Spirit"—I think that's all great. But I will tell you one other thing. I was an infant dedication guy. I fought a lot for it. I got in trouble for it. I held that view so tightly that I was actually forced by my bishop to go to Northern Virginia and do months of study.

What I will say to this: if you have your Bible or if you have your phone, I want you to Google this. How many infant dedications are there of Christians in the New Testament? Some of you could think of infants that were dedicated to the temple who were Jewish, but not Christians. I'm talking about Christians, Jesus people. If we're Bible people, this is the thing that got me. The evidence started to poke me in the eye.

I understand it's not your belief on this that's going to be what gets you to heaven or not, but I do think we need to take a hard look. Where is infant dedication in the New Testament? Can anybody find even one example of a Christian? Because I've been looking.

It kind of reminds me—who was it that brought the law? Was it Ezra? They got the book of the law and all God's people heard God's word, they heard God's law, and they're like, "Oh my gosh, it's like we never knew this." They tore their clothes and wept before the Lord and began to worship Him again.

What I'm saying is, it's okay if you have a different belief, but what I'm going to say as a pastor—it's my responsibility to say, "What does it say in the scriptures?" There is no infant dedication of Christians.

Now, we'll pray over anybody. The Anglican Church has something—when a woman goes through childbirth and comes back, we would pray over her and bless her and bless the children. But in terms of more than that, not so much.

What we normally see is a parent goes, "Yeah, my kid was baptized at the Catholic church or the Lutheran church or an Episcopal church, but they didn't really know what's going on." So they kind of missed it, and I'm sympathetic to that.

Like, they're seeing all their friends get dunked and everybody clapping and they're on TV and whatever, and then they want that. And I'll be like, that's awesome. You can come forward at any time. If you're baptized as an infant, you can share the hope that lies within you. You can stand before the church and say, you know what? The Lord moved in my life before I knew my left hand from my right hand. God is a God who sought me. I could not find my way to him. I really appreciate that, and I love the idea that this is not—it's okay to have different views on this—but that here at our church, it sounds like okay, so we believe in the setting apart of an infant as a child of the covenant. But ultimately, the circumcision of the heart is what we know brings salvation.

So that's what I appreciate. Can you speak a little bit to the role of confirmation in this? Because we are parents of two children who've been baptized twice and one none. So speak to the role of what confirmation in our church is becoming or has been over the years.

Yeah. So for eleven years, we didn't do it. We were so rambunctious and rebellious, y'all. And then the AMIA that we were part of for like ten or eleven years, our leaders in Rwanda, and all they care about is getting people saved. You know? And so there was no confirmation. But you know what? There needs to be.

Like, we can argue over infant baptism or confessional baptism. You can't say believers because I don't know who a believer is. All we can divide them is to infant or confessional. But I want you to understand this: the rub for most evangelicals who are Anglicans is there were some wording in the original prayer book that it sounded like it was done by a committee. It sounds like you had some good Baptists in there, you know? Say, what's required? You gotta believe and repent of your sins. And then it sounds like there were some other more Anglo-Catholic or Catholic influences in England. And so what was in the prayer book was confusing. There are things in the prayer book that evangelicals would not say.

For example, it says those who are rightly baptized are cleansed from sin, they're born again, and they're an inheritor of the kingdom. I can't say that. I might be a bad Anglican, Kent, but I can't say that. I can't say it for an infant. I can't say it for a child and I can't actually even say it for an adult. How do I know that an adult that comes to the water of baptism is a saved person? I can't see. I don't have X-ray glasses. He could just be one who says, "Lord, Lord" and the Lord says, "Depart. I never knew you," right? I don't know. I charitably assume the best, but what I do know is this: our children—what does the Bible say if even one parent is a Christian? How does the Lord view your child? This is very crucial.

Pagan dog? Lost, miserable offender? What, what, what, what—sinner? Sinner and also a child of promise. I didn't make that term up. The Lord did. Child of promise.

Remember in Joel 2, he says, "This promise is for you and for your children and your children's children." — Joel 2

The Holy Spirit will be poured out on all people and it's not just going to be for you but it's going to be for your progeny. Okay. But what I want you to understand is in the service, in our old prayer book, there are times where evangelicals just had to cross their fingers and say, "I don't believe that. I don't believe that anybody's born again by jumping in a pool." But I do believe that God's at work. I do believe that baptism is a sign and a symbol much like circumcision is. And while God may be at work to woo that young Jewish boy to personal faith, so we believe that he would be at work in our infants who are given the sign of the covenant.

We're not saying they're saved and we're not saying that they're regenerate or born again, but we're saying what Scripture says about them. They are, because of their mom or dad—if only one was a Christian, that child, by the Lord's view, is a child who is set apart. The word is holy. Now, does that mean because your mom or dad, one of them is a Christian and you're set apart, child of promise, holy, that you're thereby saved? Are you guaranteed salvation because your parent or parents is a Christian? Absolutely not. However, we will treat you as what the Bible says: a child of promise.

Let me read to you what the new prayer book says about infants because this is the rub, right? It is your task to see that this child that is brought to baptism is taught and as soon as he or she is able to learn the meaning of all these vows that the sponsor said for them and of the faith that you will profess as revealed in the holy scriptures.

This child must come to put his or her faith in Jesus Christ, learn the creeds, the Lord's Prayer, the Ten Commandments, and all other things that a Christian ought to know, believe, and do for the welfare of his soul. When the child has embraced all these, he or she is to come to the bishop to be confirmed so that he may publicly claim the faith for his own.

There's this expectation that just because you bring your kid to the water doesn't mean they're done. What it means is they're given the sign, the tattoo if you will. They're marked as the Lord's. It means God is at work. They're not an enemy of the Lord. They're a child of promise in the family of God.

But God has no grandchildren. I can't get saved because my dad was a minister. I can't get saved because my uncle was a Methodist minister. Big whoop de doo. I don't care if your uncle was the pope. It doesn't matter. God doesn't have grandchildren.

In terms of confirmation, evangelicals say the words are not in the Bible. I don't like it. Well, the word Trinity is not in the Bible either. Doesn't mean the Trinity is not true. There are a lot of things in the Bible that go by other names. There's a little nuance. You gotta put on your thinking cap.

But the one thing we don't want to say is that infant baptism or any baptism is just merely some kind of outward show. It's more than that. Just as circumcision was more than that. It wasn't just putting on a little something. It was marking you. You are God's people, and we pray that He will be at work in your life and that one day, just as He's put you in a Christian family, He will also circumcise your heart and bring you to personal faith.

Why do we do confirmation? It's not just a dumb service we do and the bishop comes and we all go "boring, boring, boring." The word confirmation is not in the Bible, but what is in the Bible is we see the apostles laying hands and praying for people that they would be filled with the Holy Spirit.

If I've slid over to believing in infant baptism and not dedication—that's a big if, I understand—but if I've slid over there, then at some point, because I am an evangelical, I am a Bible believer, I don't believe that person is done. I believe that child must have personal faith, which the Bible says is a gift. It's not of yourself. It's a gift of God.

That's why the language is in the new prayer book. We amped it up a little bit. I was on the committee to help write that because I feel pretty passionate about it. God has done His part. He's marking. He's at work. However, you must still believe on the Lord Jesus, repent of your sins, and come to faith. But in the meantime, we're not going to treat you like a pagan. We're gonna treat you as somebody that is a child of promise when set apart by God for His glory.

So again, we're concerned about the heart of pleasing the Lord and honoring him, and sometimes you have to make calls. I had a lady who was in our church and she hadn't been baptized since she was at the time. She's like 70, and I'm like, why don't you get baptized? It's a command. Remember the Great Commission? It really is a command. In John 3, what did Jesus say? Something else in baptism? I'll give it to you.

Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. — John 3:5

What am I saying? If somebody's not baptized, they're going to hell. No, I don't want to go that far. I'm just saying that's what Jesus said. He puts a really high view on it.

So it turns out this lady—when I wanted to listen and go like, why is she afraid to be baptized?—she said, "Well, I'm actually afraid that my hairpiece is going to come off and everybody's going to see my head, which is mostly bald." I'm like, that's a very good reason. If that's your reason for not wanting to do it publicly, sister, I'm going to give you a mulligan on that. The main thing is you want to step into obedience to the Lord. You want to obey his command to be baptized, to make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So we did a private baptism. I understand a lot of Lutherans, Anglicans, and Roman Catholics would just have a shiver me timbers over that, but I think the point was we ministered to her. She still got baptized. She still called on the name of the Lord and been saved. So why not? Why withhold it? Kind of like the Ethiopian eunuch. I don't think he did it in front of a big crowd. Maybe not.

Baptizing Children

The question is, for a child who's 12 at this point, if the child has not been baptized, do we wait until that child is asking for it and wanting to do it? Or as parents, do we embrace that this is a symbol of a covenant and we're going to do it?

That is an awesome question. Personally, I ain't waiting for any little kid to make their mind up. I think Jesus says, "Teach your children on the way, on the road, impress God's word." He said eventually there's going to be a time where you won't have to do that because He'll just do it, put it on their heart. But in the meantime, we have a job as parents to teach, disciple, lead, and guide.

This whole idea of like, I'm just letting my kids decide—well, if you do that, they're going to eat Pop-Tarts all day long. They're going to have jawbreakers and Pixie Sticks. I mean, so I think it's our job as parents. But again, I think there has to be a conversation. I don't want the kid going like a cow. Remember when the cows went to the milking barn? They would just follow one blindly. I don't want them going to baptism having no idea.

If they're an infant, that's one thing. But if they're older, I want them to understand: What is sin? What did Jesus do on the cross?

I remember when Fleet, my son who is now 30 and very tall—I don't know where that came from—anyway, when Fleet was little, probably three or four, a precocious child. He was reading at three and a half. He's a smart kid. I said, Fleet, you've got to at least have a basic understanding. We didn't dedicate baptism as an infant. We dedicated him, but he was now ready for the waters of baptism. I said, Fleet, do you know why you're doing this? He said, "Because I'm a sinner." I'm like, Fleet, what's a sin? He said, "I think that's when you do something bad that God doesn't like." I'm like, that's right, son. I wanted him to at least have the basic understanding that there's a God and he's not God. There's a God who loves him. He gave His life for him. And the same God has commanded us to be baptized.

The amazing thing to me is that Jesus himself was baptized. To what? Fulfill all righteousness. Jesus didn't need it for his spiritual welfare. He did it as an example for us of humility.

We will be buried with Christ in his death and will be raised with him. — Colossians

Deathbed Conversions and Baptism

The question is, what about deathbed conversions—the thief on the cross—and baptism?

This is a great one. The answer is some people say the thief on the cross—Jesus said, "This day, you're with me in paradise." Some other people go, well, it can't be because he wasn't baptized. The answer to that is he was baptized in his own blood. Whatever.

I come from the point that the Lord came not to condemn but to save. He's not trying to get somebody out on a technicality. But deathbed conversions—I believe in them. My dad had one.

I don't know if you guys have shared your faith with your parents or family. It's easy to do in the pulpit. So easy. But try sitting across from your dad who's 74 years old, who has cancer eating his body and you've already told him many times about your faith in Christ. Maybe he saw you misbehave and thought, "Wow, he's a terrible example of a Christian." But finally, I kept telling my dad about the Lord and it was just like talking to the wall. I'm like, "Lord, I am not going to shove Jesus down his throat. It doesn't work."

So we kind of let go for a couple of years. Then my dad was in a dune buggy accident—might've had some alcohol on board. I go in the hospital to Saint Mary's and he's got a ring thing around his head with big boreholes sticking through his skull. He was up in the bed and he said, "Hoss, I'm not going to drink or smoke anymore. I'm going to get on the straight and narrow." That's awesome, dad. That was like on Wednesday. Thursday morning, I came back. He had a drink in his hand and a cigarette and he was doing fine.

I just realized, "Lord, you want my dad to come to faith but I can't give it to him. Only you can."

When my dad got cancer, it does what cancer does. It eats at your body, your mind, pushes hard on your soul. I watched my dad go from about my weight to about 110 pounds. I'm like, "Lord, can't you just save him?" But I felt this responsibility to share the hope that lies within me. But he's turned me down and his time is short.

So I said, "Okay, Lord, who's it that put up the fleece? Gideon? I'm going to put out a fleece today because I want to know—do you really want me to go at it again or am I just talking to somebody who's lost and he's never coming? I don't want to harass him on his deathbed."

And I said, "Lord, here's how it's going to go down. If he asks anything about Jesus or heaven or the kingdom of God—unlikely—but if he asks anything about those three, I'll know that you're in it and that'll be the green light for me to not hold back and step into that space."

So I'm with my dad. He's got the cancer things and the bags and things smell and he's looking terrible. I just want to get out of the room. And yet the Lord had appointed that time. My dad, realizing his own death—he'd had a year and a half to let cancer and the reality of his own death work on him—my dad leans forward and he goes, "Hoss, tell me about it. Heaven."

You guys, I was stunned. I didn't have any notes. I want to give basic Christianity and I knew I'm a horrible witness when I try to use every scripture—I just tie people up. So the only thing that came to my mind—thank the Lord this came to my mind—is the parable of the workers in the vineyard.

The owner of the vineyard hired somebody the first part of the day, and then an hour or two later he hired somebody else, and then at noon, and then at three, and then at the last hour—like one hour before sundown—there's still people who didn't have a job. So he gives them a job. Says, "You also come and work."

The people that came in the earlier stages of the day are like, "If he's going to give them a shekel for doing this work for only an hour, can you imagine what he's going to give us?" But they all got the same pay. Then they grumbled about it. Finally, the Lord says, "I gave you exactly what I told you I would give you. Why would you begrudge the one that came in at the last hour getting the exact same reward?"

So I looked at my dad in the eyes and I'm like, "Dad, you're in your last hour. You're in your last hour. The Lord loves you. He's loved you your entire life, but this is the time. It's pretty much now or never. Today, salvation can come to you."

I kept rattling because that's what I do when I get nervous. "Dad, your whole life, you've judged yourself unworthy of the love of Christ. In one sense, you're right. But that's not how the Lord sees you. He sees you as absolutely his beloved, worthy of his love, because he made you worthy."

My dad, eating with cancer, he didn't go, "Hey, thanks for sharing." He didn't say, "I'm in." He just, with all the energy he had, nodded his head like, "I'll take it. I'll take it."

Thank you, Quig. That is beautiful. And just a good reminder that the circumcision of the heart can happen at any moment. It is never too late for those of us sitting in this room who have children who are questioning, doubting, or have abandoned the faith. That is such an encouraging story. So thank you.

We're out of time. I had six more questions to ask you, but we'll have to do that another time. This was so helpful and clarifying, and I hope for all of us it just gives us a little more structure for what we do with our children when it comes to baptism when they're in our home. So thank you.

The staff will be happy to meet with you guys and your kids. We like for Jesus to be the star of the show, but we want you to be second, not us. So we'll come alongside you and just help guide you through that talk or preparation with your children.

We will be back here in this room again next week, and that is going to be a really fun week where we get to hear from four or five different families on what practices, tools, or principles you've lived by and how they've benefited the flourishing of your family. I am personally so excited to just hear people share a little bit about what they've practiced in their homes and how it's helped the spiritual development of their families. So we're excited for that, and we'll be back here again next week.

Thank you so much, Quig.