Sunday School | God as the Trinity Part 1

Introduction

Bob's idea. Alright. Alright. Welcome home. Do you guys feel comfortable back here? That's good. I like it. We're gonna be here for the month of December because there's a bunch of practice events and just different things that they use the sanctuary for. Kids are practicing and doing stuff for Christmas. So we'll be in here through December and then back in January we'll go back over to the sanctuary.

So you, Megan. See you, Quinn. Alright, you guys. So here's what we're doing. We're in the midst of a series that's gonna last for the rest of your natural lives covering every major doctrine. We're beginning with the doctrine of God. And when I say the doctrine of God, what I really mean is theology proper, the doctrine of the first person of God, the doctrine of the father.

And I was meaning to start today the doctrine of the son, which is Christology. But then I realized maybe logically it's appropriate to fit in a little lesson on the Trinity before we go into the son. So here's my thinking about this. When we say God is omnipotent and omniscient and omnipresent, that he's sovereign, that he's good, that he's gracious, that he's loving, that he's just, that he's holy, that he's righteous, all these things and that he's hidden, which is what we said last week, that he's hidden, it is also uniquely true of him that he is multi-personal.

You are personal. You're a person. You have intellect, emotion, and will. But he is multi-personal. And so before we slide into the doctrine of the son, I thought it might be helpful just to talk about, okay, what do we mean when we say that? Okay? And we've done this before in this class at a different time, a couple years ago. So I'm curious if this sticks with you.

If we are to be Trinitarian, is what I recommend we be, Orthodox Trinitarians, you have to accept and hold and believe and maybe even, if you bear with me on this, move toward understanding three dual truths that exist in tension with each other. Okay? So Trinitarianism requires an affirmation of three things that are all doubled up and that live in opposite tension. And I'm wondering if you remember any of them.

The Dual Truths of the Trinity

The first one is the most obvious. There's Julie. Julie, I was looking for you. Because I love it when you sing. Holy cow. Like, is she not amazing? Honestly, Julie, I walked into the little room where we hide our robes, and I heard somebody sing. I'm like, who is that? And then I remembered it's Julie. And it was just so great. So glad. Grateful for you this morning.

So three dual truths. Okay? The first and most obvious of these dual truths about the Trinity. What's the most obvious thing that you've got to live with? God is one and is also three persons. God is one and God is three.

So if you're going to be Trinitarian, you have to affirm we are monotheists. We believe in one God. And we believe that God exists as three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He is not more three than he is one. He is not more one than he is three. There is a three-ness to him and there is a singleness to him. Deal with it. Okay? That's the first thing. All three and then we'll try to demonstrate it from scripture.

So your Trinitarianism requires you to accept the oneness of God and the three-ness of God. One God, three persons. We'll unpack that a little bit. Okay? What's the second one? The second that exists in a similar opposite pair. Do you know? Do you remember this? Gina? Equal but subordinate. Okay. Very good. Equal but subordinate.

Here's what we mean by that. That every person in the Godhead is equally worthy of honor, brilliance, love, power. What is he worth? Whatever it is, they're all three. Okay. We're expressing the threeness for a second. All three are equally magnificent in all respects. And yet there is subordination, submission, obedience. Jesus says, I and the father are one. But Jesus also says I have not come to do my will but the will of him who sent me.

And so we have to live with the coequality of the persons of the Godhead and with the subordination that exists within the Godhead. Again, demonstrate that biblically as well. So there's three and there's one. They're equal and yet there is submission. And what is the third little duality we've to deal with? Chris? This table is killing it, by the Well, I don't know. Maybe. You might go. We'll see. The water. I feel like it has to do with the different dimensions that God lives in. Okay. It's not that. But well, depends on what your dimension is. If your dimension is time, then you're close. Okay? So what's the what's the third? Gina? Eternal but beyond.

Eternal. Very good. So we have to say that the three persons of the Godhead are co-eternal. And yet, in some regard, the son comes from the father. And in some regard, the spirit comes from the father and the son. So there is what we would say begetting and proceeding. The father just bear with me here. It's hard to say either half of this without being a heretic. Okay? The father is first and from him comes the son. And from the father and the son comes the spirit except for the first part because there is no first. They're all co-eternal.

So that's what you've to deal with. Three and one, co-eternal and yet begetting and proceeding. I'm sorry, co-eternal and yet begetting and proceeding, coequal and yet subordinating, submitting and obeying. You got to have all that. Altogether, hold it in your fist, you can be a Trinitarian, which is a good idea. Robin? Question. Yep. Prayers. You know, I feel like Okay. So time out. I'm a little bit having a hard time hearing you, so so is everybody else. Is there like a low level in here or something? What's going on? Over here. Oh, can we deflate Frosty for a minute? Is that the problem? Alright. Frosty's sorry, buddy. Okay. So that might help a little. And Robin. In prayer, sometimes I have this feeling of guilt that I'm not equally praising or, you know, for all three parts of it. Yeah. Is that a lie? I mean Yeah. Okay. Great. So Robin is saying, so what if if we if we spend all of our time praying to God the father, is Jesus over there kicking rocks feeling like he never talks to me. Right? Okay. Is that the the answer to the question? Okay. The answer is no.

Each person of the Godhead loves and adores and delights and praises and lives for the joy of the others. So when we when when Jesus instructed us in like in those John, the upper room discourse, John like fifteen, sixteen, 17, that whole thing, he invites us to pray to his father. And he even it's it's kinda like there's this in the beginning of the relationship with the disciples, it's almost as if we're saying to Jesus, hey Jesus, would you mind talking to your dad for me and ask him if we you do this in real life. Like hey, if you're a friend of somebody who runs a car dealership, you're like hey, would you ask your dad if you'd give me a deal on that? We're like passing a note. And Jesus says listen, let's not do that anymore. You can just talk to them. Just mention that you know me. You can talk to him directly and you don't need to go through me. And in that, we don't get any sense that Jesus is at all jealous. They're not jealous of one another. They love each other. And so Jesus is not doesn't feel let out when we pray to the Father. In fact, he invites us to. And the Spirit's favorite thing is when we make much of Jesus. The Spirit's delight is to point to him, say, behold the Son, behold his majesty. In fact, the spirit's, we'll get to this eventually, but the spirit's very nature the spirit more than you think when I said the spirit's well, I'll unpack this later. But the spirit's very nature is love of the father and the son. That is what he literally is, father, the love of the father and the son. So, yeah, no jealousy. But you can pray to the spirit of God. You can pray to the son. You can pray to the father. Jesus invites us to pray to his father. But they all are one, and so you can't mess it up. Good enough?

The Nature and Scripture of the Trinity

Okay. So you got your three and your one, co-equal and yet subordinated, co-eternal, and yet begetting and proceeding. That's kind of the range you got to come in. So our challenge today is to try to like, can we demonstrate this from scripture? Are we making this up? Good enough? Alright, what's your best statement? And we can do a lot of this, but we don't have all the time in the world, so monotheism. There is one God. Where would you go? You got some Jehovah's Witness knocking on your door or something. One God. Where would you go, Gil? Fantastic. Very good.

So Gil kicks us off at pretty much the anchor point of this. It's Deuteronomy six four. Right? Do you guys know it? Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, your mind, and your strength. I think that's foundational. Deuteronomy six for the oneness of God. That's good. That's a little bit the oneness, the unity of God which is distinct from the only oneness of God.

Where would you go for the only one? There aren't any others. Where would you go for that? God. There's only one God. How about? Commandments. What did you say bro? 10 Exactly right. Okay. Carlton is exactly right. Go to Exodus 20 which is like one of the two places you'll get the 10 commandments. Exodus 20 verse one, and God spoke all these words. I am the Lord your God who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me. Right? And then the second commandment is essentially a restatement of that or an application of that. Don't make any idols. Don't make any gods. There is one God. Very good. You got any others? There's a bunch. I mean, it's actually a bunch a bunch a bunch, but other places you'd go to demonstrate that there is only one god. Where it talks about sorry. Should I raise my hand? Nope. They have hands, mouths, but they can't speak. Yes. But they can't touch because they they aren't anything. Okay. So Isaiah does this thing where he basically makes fun of all these idols, these nonsensical idols. Isaiah is actually great you wanna talk about monotheism. He's gonna go after this hard. He is the one who does it. Over and over, he he mocks the he mocks the idol makers and he affirms the singularity of God. Here's another here's another Isaiah why we're on him. This is what the Lord says, your redeemer who formed you in the womb. This is 4424. I am the Lord who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself. Alright. Or this, first Corinthians seventeen twenty, there is no one like you, o Lord, and there is no God but you as we have heard with our own ears. Okay? So one God. I mean, it's all over the place, but that'll give you a handful of the tightest statements of it. But remember, that lives in tension with what? His three-ness. There's a multi-personal God.

The Multi-personal God and Biblical Support

So what's the first hint in the Bible that maybe we're talking about something that is unlike us? Something that is more personal even than we are? The first hint, the multi-personal God. Yeah? Let us make man in our Yes. Was that what you were going to say, Carlton? Pretty much. I was going to tie in the Genesis account of creation with the John account of in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word. Okay. Fantastic. So let's do both of these.

So let's start in Genesis one twenty six. This is what we call the creation mandate. Just listen to the language here. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. Well, it starts on the creation mandate, it begins with God being God making man. Then God said, let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth and over all the creatures. So God created man in his own image. In the image of God, he created him. Male and female, he created them. You get in that statement, the he-ness of God and The Us-ness of God. Just right there in that little passage. And that sense that there's one but there's multiple but there's just one and I'm not sure what you're trying to say right now, gets duplicated in John one.

Alright, John one one. Does anybody have that memorized? Yeah. How does it go? Right, murmur, murmur. That's right. Okay. In the beginning, in the beginning was the word and the word was two things. What are the two things the word was? With God. And? Was God. Okay. So there it is. You feel it. Right? There's a oneness and there's a multiplicity both at the same time. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. He was with God in the beginning. You get the same thing in Hebrews chapter one, that the sun is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being. So there's the father and then there's this other person who is exactly like him. Right? We could we we maybe will do more on the deity of Christ eventually, but you just gotta see it.

Any passage that talks about the deity of Christ is necessarily talking about the multi-personal nature of God. Catherine. Is this what you're thinking when Philip said, show us the Father? He just said, don't you know me? Yes. Very good. So in John 14, show us the Father. It's like, well, I've been with you for this whole time. If you've seen me, you've seen the Father. So Jesus has a very high sense of himself. It's one of the extraordinary things about him. He believes that he is God and yet he lives a life of abject humility. Right?

Okay. So we've got these statements that are clearly about the oneness of God. We've statements that are clearly about the multi-person nature of God. And then you've got a handful of places in the Bible where it really does glue it all together. So can you think of formulas? These are gonna be in the New Testament. Formulas in the New Testament where you have all three persons of the Godhead being described in very close proximity to one another. Quigg? Baptism of Jesus. Okay. Very good. Okay, what happens in the baptism of Jesus, Quigg? I defer to my wife. I know your wife not as well as you do but she would hate that. Yes. So in the baptism, you see all parties present. There is the son, the spirit descends on him like a dove, and the father speaks. And you see all three right there. It's a great picture of all persons of the Godhead showing up. You agree, Miss Annette? Yes. Yes, she does. Okay, very good. Alright, Trinitarian formulations in the New Testament. Do you have others of this? Transfiguration. Transfiguration. Okay, how there? I have to look it up because that came to mind. Okay, so in the transfiguration, you definitely have the son and the father. I don't remember offhand. Is the spirit manifest in that moment like he is? He might be. I don't remember if he speaks or not. I mean, he he the truth is, Adam, he is. I don't remember if the text makes it explicit or not. So it might be. Don't remember. How about this in the language, Bob? Last verse of second Corinthians. Okay. Very good. Second Corinthians is a great, great page. I'll read this one out because they probably can't hear you. Listen to this. Second Corinthians thirteen fourteen. Listen to this. May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

So the three persons are being grouped together in a way that you can be like, oh, there's an equivalency among them. Same thing, the one that maybe you might be the most familiar with perhaps is the great commission. Matthew 28:18-20. Has that been, if you guys, if you're in crew, it's like they make us recite this 500 times a day. Right? It was just built in our heads.

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. — Matthew 28:19

This formulation is again sensing the equivalency of these persons. Similar to 1 Peter, he does this. 1 Peter 1:2. It says, You’ve been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood.

The New Testament makes a strong case. These three persons, there's an equivalence here, there's three of them. There's one. You just got to live with it. Three persons, one God. Take it all. Okay? There's that.

Roles and Functions within the Trinity

How are we doing? Can we blitz through? Brenda? Are their roles different? Are their roles different? Yes. Okay, that's a great question. So, and maybe as we get into, like, maybe I can do that more when we get into the son and the spirit, what are their roles? But they do have distinct roles. And you even see that a little bit here. Right? In the Peter passage, the foreknowledge of God the Father, the sanctifying work of the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ. Obedience is suggestive that what he is—I've talked about this all the time, but Jesus is king. Through his death and resurrection, he became king. So his role is to rule the world, and we obey him. The father's role was to choose us, and the spirit's role is to apply salvation to us. And of course, Jesus became king through his cross. He is the atoning sacrifice for sins.

So you do see they work in partnership with one another for they are one accomplishing ultimately our redemption, ruling the world, and inviting us into it. So yes, for sure. Yeah. Judy? There's a whole section of John where he's deep at where Jesus is leading, and he's like, I am in the father, the father is in me, and if you keep my command, I'll send you another helper, the Spirit. Yes. Like they're all in that holy section.

Yes. So if you—yeah. John the upper room discourse. John 15 to 17 is chiefly what you're quoting there. Right? And then John 15 to 17, you will see that's where Jesus says, if I don't leave, the Spirit won't come. All three persons of the Godhead, you see they're working in concert together for our good. That's great you could extract all sorts of Trinitarian theology from that upper room discourse. That's excellent.

Okay. So three persons. One God, heretic, burn him. One God, three persons, and with a strong biblical support for these. Okay? Let's do—I don't know. Let's do co-eternal first. Okay? We mentioned this already. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

He's not ever secondary. Right? So we do say there's something—this is—you just gotta—this is just hard. There's something prime, unoriginated about the Father. And there is something about the Son that is begotten, that is on the edge of heresy, derived or derivative. Okay? And here's one way. All analogies break down. All analogies are ultimately heretical. But if you imagine you lit a match and now you have fire, what comes from that fire are two things. What do you get from your flame? Light. Heat and light. Okay. And so would anybody hiccup to say that the heat comes from the flame? Light? Or that the light comes from the flame? Are you comfortable with that? And yet, so you have a sense of proceeding from, begotten from.

Okay? But did you ever have flame that you didn't also have heat and light? Right? So you hear that that's just an example of something that comes from something else but is eternally coming from something else. Right? As long as there was a flame, there was light. It's not like there was flame and then the next day there was light. Right? So Jesus proceeds from well, Jesus is begotten of the Father and the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, but they do so eternally, never not.

So this is this is what we're trying to get our heads around. Robin? In the Old Testament, wasn't the pre-incarnate Christ the word? Like God spoke in the new creation? Yes. And the Spirit moved on the face of the earth. That's correct. That's what I kind of understood as a part of what you're—I mean, I think Robin's asking about what we call the pre-incarnate Christ. And so it might be helpful to think about when I'm describing the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, this begins prior to Mary getting pregnant. Okay? So there is a—you know, Jesus is born in like, whatever three BC or something. But prior to Jesus taking on human flesh, prior to the incarnation, for all eternity past, the Son existed with his Father. In fact, the Son—we'll get to this eventually—the Son is the one who made the world. Colossians makes it very clear—the Son is the creative agent. Right? So this pre-incarnate Christ, sometimes that term Robin will be used in reference to two things. It could be the spiritual being who has existed for all eternity, who rules, who has created the world, the second person of the Trinity. Sometimes though, we'll use the term the pre-incarnate Christ in reference to these moments where it seems like the spiritual second person of the Trinity put on a human suit and walked on the earth. And there are a couple of times where that seems to have happened. We call them Theophanes, where God shows up. So pre-incarnate Christ might be a reference to an embodied temporary being, but it might also reference just the eternal state of the Son being of the Father.

How are you doing? Is that good? Okay. Did you have a question about that, or are we just observing that that's a thing? Wondering if before taking on human flesh he was the Word. Yes. A. Yes. This is—yeah, okay, good. Okay. So before taking on human flesh, before Mary got pregnant, right, Jesus was the Word. And I'll probably—I think I'll save it till next week to talk about what I think that means. He is the Logos. I'll just leave it that he is the idea. He is the thought. There is something about idea, information, concept, sense of self that we'll unpack next week. But he is the Word. That's not just a rant. He didn't say he was the Christmas tree ornament. He was the Word. There's something particular about that.

Harry? Oh, and then I gotta come to Gil. Sorry. But Harry first. Basically, John 1:1-2 says anything that was made was made through him. Yes. And anything that was not made wasn't made. That's right. He—Jesus is the creator. Like, we tend to think of creation as the Father, but the New Testament makes it very clear—the creative agent is the Son. That is correct.

So there's three and there's one, co-eternal and yet begotten and proceeding. We got the co-eternal, we'll get to the beginning and proceeding in a moment. Gil? So you mentioned the theophany and I was thinking about the angel of the Lord. Yes. That would mean he's another word. Exactly right. Gil is pointing out that when we have these theophanies where it's like, who shows up in the fire with Daniel or with Daniel's buddies? When Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are in the fire and there's a fourth one walking around who looks like a son of the gods—that's this theophany. This is the angel of the Lord. When the angel of the Lord shows up with Gideon, and then it turns out it's not just an angel, those are probably the second person of the Trinity prior to his incarnation, nevertheless manifesting himself.

Okay. Last one, and then I gotta get out. We're never gonna finish this. I was gonna reference John 8:58 where he says, I tell you the truth—before Abraham was, I am. Great. Great. Okay. It's a fantastic argument for the eternality of the Son. In John 8, Jesus is referencing before anything else was, I am, and he uses God's covenant name. Absolutely solid. Jason's exactly right. The eternality of the Son.

But he's not just eternal. He's also begotten. He also comes from, in some sense, is derivative of. Here's how we put it in the creeds. We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, eternally begotten. This is really important. Eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made of one being with the Father. We use the word begotten in the creed three times right there. Because we're really trying to say, listen, he is not there weren't two of them, they're competing. The Son really comes from the Father. And it's just that's one of these things we just have to accept and embrace.

Not begotten like I mean, everyone in this room is begotten of their own father. But that means your father was around for thirty years before you came into being. Right? This is different. They're co-eternal, and yet the Son really does proceed from or come from the Father. And though we know less about this, we talk less about this, the Spirit is similarly, again, bear with me, derived from both the Father and the Son. Now, the Orthodox Church disagrees with us about this. There was a huge fight about this. Like, gosh, Quigg, when was this? 1016 is the date. Okay, so a thousand years ago there was a big fight about this. They agree that the Spirit comes from the Father. They deny that the Spirit comes from the Father and the Son. I believe that we are right and they are wrong. And we'll get there when we get there. But here's John 15:26. Listen to this. John 15:26. But when the helper comes, that's the Spirit, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

Right? I don't have time to unpack this fully. We'll do this in a couple of months. But there is some sense in which the Spirit is derived from, at the very least, the Father. But I think—I think the stronger case to make is that he comes from he proceeds from the Father and the Son. Co-eternal, and yet there's this progression within the Godhead.

202. Did somebody say it, Quigg? I lied. It's 1054. Sorry. Burn the witch. Cross out your notes. It's not 1016. It's 1054. Okay?

And then here's the thing, co-equal. How do you make the case for the co-equality? That it's not—why do we pray to the Father when we pray to the Father and not the Son? Well, it's because he's better, he's wiser, he's stronger, he's more glorious. None of those things are true. They're all equal. And I think you—you could look to them. Matthew 28 and 1 Peter 1 and 2 Corinthians—the passage we looked at, the last verse of 2 Corinthians—and we could see that equality there.

But where else would you go to make the case for the equality among the persons of the Godhead? Can you see places where that gets— or can you think of places where that's explicitly described? How about this? Some of the language we use when we talk about the worthiness of God is we're taking it out of Revelation 4 and Revelation 5. Go there. This is long. There's a lot of stuff in here. I'll read you some of this. If you go to—let's see. Let's just take it. We'll blitz through it all. Not all of it. There's too much of it, but we'll give some of this.

I'll read some now. Revelation 4:11 says:

Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to him who is seated on the throne, who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him, who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne saying, worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power. For you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.

Now you might be wondering, is this the Father or the Son or the Spirit for that matter? Just hold that in abeyance for a moment. But be curious, who are we talking about? And we keep going in Revelation five. It says:

Then I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming with a loud voice, who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals? And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open it or look into it. And I began to weep loudly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it.

And one of the elders said to me,

Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.

And if we weren't sure who was seated on the throne, we can be quite certain now: for there is only one who is the Lion of Judah, the Root of David, the Conqueror, who can open the scroll.

Between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. And He went and took the scroll from the right hand of Him who was seated on the throne.

At this point, who do you think is seated on the throne?

God the Father.

Someone else comes to him. And when he, namely this lamb, who is also lion, when he has taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fall down before the lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sing a new song, saying:

Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain and by your blood you ransomed people for God, from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you've made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.

Now it starts to get more explicit.

I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice:
Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.

Put your finger on Revelation 5:12 and scroll back to Revelation 4:11.

Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.

Back down to Revelation 5:12:

Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.

You see, the same ascription of worthiness and glory is given to both. The Lamb is fully worthy just like the Father.

And then it really gets glued together—Revelation 5:13.

I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them saying: to Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever. And the four living creatures said, Amen, and the elders fell down and worshiped.

The quality of the Son to the Father could not be any more explicit here. He proceeds from, and is equal to, yet there is subordinate authority.

You with me on this? Now, this is not talking about the Spirit of God in this moment, but I ask you to set that aside for at least another week. There is more to say about that which would be better said after I say something else.

But there is an equality among the persons of the Godhead—and yet, and yet, there is subordination. You see it all the time, really in John's Gospel. One of John's favorite themes is the willingness of the supreme, brilliant, omniscient, omnipotent, glorious, righteous, holy Son of God to say, oh no no, after you. To say, what would you like me to do? To say, what would you like me to suffer? It's extraordinary. Jesus is perfectly worthy of never obeying anyone, and yet he obeys even to death on a cross.

He is not less in any way, shape, or form, and yet he subordinates himself. So here's how he says it. Do you have these? Do you have any of these in your mind about the subordination of the Son?

Father, if it be your will, take this cup.

Great, Gil. Perfect. Okay, in the garden Jesus says, Father, if it's your will. He clearly doesn't want to get crucified. This is okay—that he doesn't want to get crucified. And he says, Father, he knows why. He's saying, is there a time out? Before we—

Is there any other way we could do this? Pretty reasonable question. Yeah. I don't want this—I mean, this is going to be miserable. Is there another way? We could do this a different way? I'd like to do this a different way. But if not, I'll do whatever you want me to do.

It's a perfect example of it, Gil. Catherine? When Jesus said, I only do what the Father does to me. He says it over and over.

I only do what the Father tells me to do. I only say what the Father tells me to say.

You might think, like, well, why? You're brilliant. You're holy. Just if anybody in the world is capable of being self-sufficient, it's Jesus. And yet he's like, now I'm just waiting for my orders. Holy cow.

Yeah. In the Gospel of John. I feel like God is saying, read the Gospels more. Because Jesus is the ultimate robot. The ultimate. He is. So, if we meditate just on that one statement he made—just meditate on it. And then it's like, when you meditate on it, it's as if the Father comes closer. And so he does that inside.

Yes. The more we meditate, meditate on the Word, and I just—yeah. There's a world of wisdom and just beholding the Son and how he lives his life, for sure.

Adam, then Dave P.

Great. Philippians 2. Okay. So if you know Philippians 2, the great Christ hymn, what part of that do you want me to read? Do you want to just tell it?

Adopt the same attitude as Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.

I mean, is God, and yet he didn't consider equality with God something to be claimed. Because, well, if you don't, who will? Right? Because you are all of it.

And Philippians goes on to say he humbled himself, became obedient to death, even death on a cross.

He is the one of Revelation 5. He is the worthy one who nevertheless, he's infinitely worthy to receive glory and honor and he is infinitely patient in suffering evil. It's extraordinary.

Dan? Just to sow a little more confusion, we also see Jesus being obedient to the Spirit when he is led by the Spirit.

He was tempted, so good.

So there it's not just one way, and this is such a great observation, Dan. This is what the early church called the Perichoresis of the persons of the Godhead.

Peri means a perimeter, a circle going around; Choresis is like choreography.

So, the dancing about of the persons of God. And you get the impression—these three persons of the Godhead each sought to revolve around the other and orbit one another and defer to one another. That before there was carbon, oxygen, helium, there was love. There was deference. There was obedience. There was giving honor away.

Tim Keller says, when Jesus tells you to consider others' needs as more important than your own, all he's literally doing is telling you to do what the Father, Son, and Spirit have been doing for all eternity. This is just the way that they function within one another.

Carlton?

The disciples ask Jesus to pray, and he gives them the Lord's Prayer.

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done.

Yes. Great. Carlton is saying that the Lord's Prayer itself is a picture of this: Thy kingdom come, thy will be done. We're invited to imitate that.

Here's a couple more before we end.

John 4:34—My food is to do the will of Him who sent me.

John 6—I have come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of Him who sent me.

John 16:13—When the Spirit of truth comes, he will not speak on his own authority, but he will speak whatever he hears and will declare to you the things that are to come.

This is important for you in at least two settings. It's important for you in your work, and it's important for you in your marriage. Because we tend to think that if you're obeying your boss, it's probably because your boss is better than you. That if you're obeying your husband, it's probably because you're incompetent and need their leadership. And this is not the biblical view of submission.

Jesus is not submitting to the Father because he's a little stupid. We are invited in relationships to submit to proper authorities because this is divine. It's true within the Godhead. It's not a solution to the fact that some people are stupid and need direction.

We are living out the very nature of the Godhead. I did a marriage renewal ceremony a couple weeks ago. A couple that has been married for years, but every year the husband surprises his wife and they do a marriage renewal. It's like a surprise renewal—like they’re getting married again today. And it's great because he adores her and loves her.

I sent him the marriage ceremony I do, the language of how I frame it. I walked through Ephesians 5, which depicts loving your wives as Christ loved the church, and wives submitting as the church submits to Christ. I sent it to him. I didn't send it to her because it’s a surprise.

And I told the husband to love his wife unconditionally, sacrificially, and purifyingly. You've got to imitate Jesus. Husband's job is to imitate the crucified one. Nobody ever blinks when I tell him that.

Then I tell the wife to submit to her husband as to the Lord, because the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. She’s clearly uncomfortable. We walk through the valley, and there's a hiccup every time she struggles with the words.

And I find it so stunning—it’s not hard at all when I tell husbands they must be crucified for their wives. Everybody's like, okay, that makes sense. But when I say, submit to your husband as the church submits to Christ, everyone's freaking out.

Who has the harder task? There’s no question.

There is no question who bears the more challenging task. And I always say, behold the Son’s obedience to the Father. Nobody's offended when I preach Jesus obeying God. Nobody pickets. Nobody protests.

And I say, this obedience—this subordination—isn't weakness. It's strength. It’s a picture of how he loves you enough to die for you. When we obey in the proper spheres, it’s a good thing, not a bad thing. It’s an imitation of the divine love within the Trinity.

Enough of that for now. We’ll do more, but I wanted you to have that foundation. Next week, we're gonna talk about Jonathan Edwards’ vision of this, which is mind-boggling and really fun, so come back.

We’ll be in this room again next week. Thank you very much.