Sunday School | What are your spiritual gifts?

Introduction

All right, you guys, good morning, how you doing? Welcome to the 97th class in this series. We are talking about, what are we talking about? Do you remember where your homework assignment was? Homework, we had homework. I didn't know we had homework. You did, what are we talking about? Do you remember?

That's what we were talking about. I wasn't here, says Charlie Tull. We're talking about spiritual gifts. So we are nearing the end of our third major block. We did theology proper, Christology, and now we're on pneumaticology, the doctrine of the spirit. And in particular, as you talk about the Holy Spirit, we're talking about the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Holy Spirit does all kinds of things, produces fruit in our lives, among other things. He's perhaps is the living love of God that exists between the Father and the Son. If you can stand that. But what we started talking about a week or two ago, maybe, is the spiritual gifts. That one of the things that he does is he grants superpowers. Is that fair to say, to believers? He does something to impart gifts to us.

If we are in Christ, then we have been given gifts. And we looked at, there's basically four major passages in the New Testament where it describes this. Do you remember where they are? Where we get like lists of the gifts?

The Biblical Foundations of Spiritual Gifts

1 Corinthians.
1 Corinthians, what chapter?
12.
12, 1 Corinthians 12? Okay, yes, and actually 12, all 12, 13, 14, that whole thing, but the list is in chapter 12. Another, there's another 12. Romans 12, so 1 Corinthians 12 and Romans 12, both have lists of things that he does. But as Gary says, the 1 Corinthians 12 is a longer passage. And then there's also two fours. Ephesians four and 1 Peter four, okay?

One of the things that I would want you to take about the fact that there are four lists is that there's not one list, right? It's not a canonical, like here's the bucket. Jesus has 16 things that he can distribute and you get this one and you get this one. I think it's much broader than that. I don't think there's one, despite what you might see in like a spiritual gifts, Sunday school assessment, there's a variety of things, right? But with all of the gifts, they do have in common. I think it's fair to say that there's basically three things that the spiritual gifts are gonna have in common.

Commonalities of Spiritual Gifts

Number one, you like doing it, right? This is a pleasure for you to operate in this. Number two, you're good at it. And by good at it, we'll come back to this maybe a little bit later, what I mean is you're effective at it, right, it produces the desired result. And then number three is that it benefits the church. I think all the gifts, whatever's going on, there's some pleasure when you're doing it, you're actually effective in the exercise and then it's beneficial to the body, okay?

Then, if you accept that that's the commonalities, we also will divide the gifts up into two basic categories and we don't really have a name for the first category, it's the normal stuff, right? Things like helping people. Paul specifically mentioned is the gift of helping and administration or teaching. Things that aren't all that flashy but are the normal warp and woof of life.

Then, there are the more obviously supernatural gifts, things like prophecy or healing or speaking in tongues. There's a number of things that Paul lists, especially in 1 Corinthians 12 that are these, sometimes we'll call them the charismatic gifts, signed gifts, the things that are more supernatural, okay?

The Missing Gifts and Their Significance

I'm curious, if you went back, maybe you did your homework and maybe you didn't even realize you had homework. And if you looked through those lists, if you read 1 Corinthians 12 or Romans 12 or Ephesians 4 or 1 Peter 4, I wonder, did anything seem to think it was missing to you? When you go through those things, was there anything you're like, you know, this seems to be a really significant way that God has tended to, one of the gifts that it gives to his body that's significant.

I'm curious, I have, there is one that strikes me as particularly missing, which also encourages me that it's more expansive than just as mentioned, but I'm curious if that's the case for you. Anything seem weird to you that's not there? Yeah, Dan?

— A lot of hospitality should be in there.

Okay, so this is great. So hospitality is not mentioned. You get helps, you get administration. Hospitality is not one of these gifts that is described, but there's no question that that is a spiritual gift, right? In fact, it's even one of the qualifications for elders. If you're gonna be an elder, you've gotta be a competent teacher. You have to be able to like hold firmly to the trustworthy message, you gotta be able to refute those who oppose it, you gotta be able to do instruction, but you've also gotta be hospitable. And if that's one of the things that he requires, it would make sense that it's one of the things that he imparts. So I think hospitality's a great example.

Anything else? Strike you?

— That hospitality was on a gift inventory that we did one time, so...

So, in it.

— And it turns out that Matthew, Mark, and I were all like, on with that, and we went, wow, we like that.

Hospitality is a secret sauce for Christianity. Absolutely, for sure. In fact, there's a great book about it called, "The Gospel Comes with a House Key." You know this? It's by what's your name, Kelly? Rosaria Butterfield, yeah. It's a great, great look into that.

What else? Any other things you think are missing that aren't explicitly described? Here's one that I think is shocking to me that is not listed because this is so obvious, is something about leading worship, singing, playing musical instruments. Like, do you know how, like, as somebody, I've led a million different campus ministries, meaning every year is a different whole new thing. When a church is a lake, a campus ministry is a river, right? You guys come, and more or less, you never leave, right? But in a campus ministry, they just come in and go and all the time. Are they here for four years? You know, your freshmen come in and go out. And I will tell you, the years that we have talented, gifted worship leaders are really great years. And the years that you don't, you got some poor kid that's just kind of can't keep rhythm and he's your worship leader, it's horrible. It's just terrible, and you can't overcome it, right?

It's the ability to lead worship is a crucial, crucial thing. And it's just stunning to me that he mentions, Paul mentioned teaching, Peter will mention, you know, administrating, but we don't get worship. Leading, the ability to lead worship is a spiritual gift, right? And it's more than just the technical ability to play music. We're so fortunate. Cole, Cole is a gifted worship leader, right? His intuition about what to do at any given moment, his ability to invite the spirit and to draw us into him is huge, right?

So your gifts may or may not be on that list. Probably some of you have things that are absolutely mentioned to describe, but others don't. By the way, when I, in defense, in case you don't think that worship is a spiritual gift, here's the closest we get to it in the scriptures. In Ephesians 5, it says,

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.
And then the next line is, speak to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Doesn't say it's a spiritual gift, but it is interesting that flows right out of this conversation of being filled with the Spirit. Let's go sing a song. I think there's a connection there, okay?

Discovering Your Gifts

So here's what I really want to spend our time on today: what are your gifts? What do you think is the thing that God has put you in the body to do? And as I ask that question, I want to try to like, head off a risk, okay? It's a gift, which means you don't get any credit for it, right?

You don't get, some of you have really beautiful eyes. Good for you. What did you do to accomplish that, right? It was a gift, right? And so if you're good at X, if what you love to do is Y, if you find there's a greater effectiveness when you're the one at the helm during this thing, like you're allowed to say so, it's not arrogant. It's just like, it's just, it is what it is. You with me?

We're not bragging here. We're just saying, what did the Lord give me some particular ability? And he gave me some very specific deficits. It is what it is, you with me? So what are your gifts? Maybe they're from the list, maybe they're elsewhere.

Yeah, bro.

— For about 13 years now, I've been a volunteer assistant football coach in both Montgomery County public schools in Renham City. And I have never once been seeking out credit for anything I've ever done. And people have never been willing to give me that credit, therefore, I've just never been willing to accept any of this came and I like.

Okay, so do you think that, so, but are you saying, do you think that coaching is your spiritual gift?

— Coaching is.

Okay, now here's what I want to ask you. 'Cause it might be, but it also might not be. So here's what I want you to think about. If the three things are, I enjoy doing it, right? I'm effective when I do it. And then number three is it builds up the body, right? So a person could coach a football team or a basketball team or whatever in a way that has absolutely no kingdom benefit. You're not developing people, you're not imparting value, kingdom value, you're helping the team win. And that's valuable in itself, but it wouldn't be a spiritual exercise unless when we're doing that thing, we are doing it for the purpose of recognizing that right now, I'm developing young men and I want to help them accomplish a goal because I'm developing something to them. So just think about this, right? Whatever it is, you might be good at any number of things. And that also, in some regard, is a gift. You know, like we're just, we are what we are.

But the spiritual gifts, is it all three of those things? And it may absolutely be, right? So what do you think? Spiritual gifts, what do you guys think? I know, this is an awkward question, but I'm doing it on purpose. Yeah, Dan?

— I've always considered myself a gatherer of women.

Gatherer?

— A gatherer, yes. I can get a group of women together, homogenous group or even outside of group, and we discuss and live together.

Okay, so, and this is almost like pre-hospitality, right? It's not just that you're nice to them when they come, but you're able to create a thing that will draw people to make them want to come and to be there. And I can tell you again, I think of my time with crew that we had this kid, his name is Ollie Sohilion. This is Iranian kid, came to Christ, and nobody could gather like Ollie. He's a cop now, he's a Fairfax County police officer. And when Ollie was with us, the number of students who went on a summer project, like quadrupled because of Ollie, because he has just a magnetic ability to draw people in, and he could've used that superpower for ill, but he used it incredibly for good, right? He was incredibly fun all the time, except for the one time where to fall retreat and all the kids say, "Hey, can you open your trunk for me? I think I left something in there." And I'm like, and they're all so eager, and you're like, "Okay, there's something in the trunk." You know, you want to guess what was in the trunk? Ollie, you want to guess what he was wearing?

— Nothing, that's right, all right? So I was like, somebody's going to prison, and this was not my fault, you know? Now this guy's a cop, so, you know, know what you want to do. Okay, spiritual gifts, what do you guess?

— There was a hand in the back, but I missed it. Silas?

— We're gonna make a connection.

Unpack that, making connections?

— Making connections with just like, what's in the Bible, and what's here today?

Oh, okay, so not connections between people, but having the ability, this is great. So if teaching is a spiritual gift, learning is a prior gift, right? Are you able to read the scriptures and something leaps off the page, and it makes sense to you? That is always, you guys, that's always a work of the spirit. The spirit doesn't just write the Bible, but he illumines the Bible, and he does not evenly distribute things. Some people have a particular ability to read this, and then see something, it makes sense to them, and then really, they could be, Silas, it could be fun for you, and it could be that you're effective at it, meaning the connections that you're making are accurate. But what is the third thing that has to happen, if we're gonna say that that really is a spiritual gift?

— It has to make sense.

No, there's specific three things, you're good at it, or you like it, you're effective at it, and what's the third thing?

— That's the third thing.

It benefits the body, and what that means, you guys, is, Silas, when you make that connection and you see it, the next step then is for you to share that with somebody else, and it might be that you're expressly saying, look at this, this is what this means, or it might just be that in your own life, you're gonna make that connection, you're gonna apply it, you're gonna live it, and the world benefits, because you are living your life consistent with the Scriptures in a way that models and helps and blesses others. So that's a great example. Others, yeah, Brenda?

— I don't have this gift that it wasn't mentioned earlier, being a prayer warrior, we're all called to pray, but there are some people who I just feel like have an incredible gift to pray for others.

This is so absolutely true, and that's probably as obviously missing as the worship thing is, right? And here's what, Brenda says something that's very important. Everybody is called to pray, right? And you don't get to say, well, I don't have the gift of prayer, so enjoy your prayer meeting, right? We don't do that, we're all called to do it, but have you noticed there are some people that are more naturally suited to this, or that they're more practices? Maureen Anderson is Maureen even in this room. Hope she's not 'cause I can talk about her. But like, do you guys know this? Like Maureen Anderson is a woman who is deeply committed to prayer, and in that, I mean, I get the impression, I think the way that Maureen prays, leans into kind of the supernatural stuff, right? You can pray in a natural, you can pray like Tim Henderson is capable of praying, right? Which is relatively simple, right? But I think Maureen, her prayer life, I think is more, Maureen Hunter says, my prayer life is more of a monologue than a dialogue. I think Maureen is more of a dialogue than a monologue, right? And the body's a unit made up in many parts, we have different capacities, but some people have this ability to say like, this is a community feminine in an intense way, but nobody is excluded from needing to develop that, right? And it might be that it could be, that at the present moment, your prayer life is more of a monologue than a dialogue. Doesn't follow that it would always be that way, right? Because the spirit moves as he wills, and he does what he's pleased to do. So prayer's a great example. Spiritual gifts, Katherine?

— There are a lot of people here who have to see what's called mercy.

Okay.

— Right here.

Sweet Mark, the gift of mercy, okay? Think about that. Mercy is one that's so, you wanna be married to a mercy guy, right? I mean, poor Kelly. (audience laughs) The mercy so obviously benefits the body, right? Like very obviously, it's so easy to see, like when you're broken and you're hurting, and you're just drawn to nice people, they're gonna be gracious to you in that. Spiritual gifts, what are yours? Yeah, Fred?

— I would consider the gift of organizing, the ability to organize, working the background, she gets done.

Katherine, I would like you to draw by after church. Yes, and I would say organizing is like a component of admitted, and do you feel like that's something, Fred, that you have a capacity for that? Is what your wife is saying, absolutely not. So, okay, all right, that's good.

— The body is not necessarily myself.

Yes, okay, somebody, right? And it is, so that's what, I think it's probably Paul and Peter, both are referring to, and they're talking about administration. It's crucially important that somebody make sure that things are happening in sequence, on schedule, who is that? Who would you say like, yeah, I'm designed to make the change around on time? This is what I do, yeah, right? It's crucial, and some of you, God bless you, man, if you were in charge of that kind of thing, it would be horrible, right? You notice this about yourself? But that would be, okay, but the body's a unit, made up of many parts, right? We have different abilities.

Stewardship and Misuse of Gifts

All right, a couple more, spiritual gifts. What do you think are yours? Yeah?

— I've got, I would say I have a comfort level with talking about my struggle that's in the past.

Okay, and I can confirm that. So, Bob and I've had a number of conversations, and you have this beautiful ability to be, and this is just, this is the story. This is what God has done. You're not a pretentious man, right? You're just honest, you are transparent about what God has done in your life, what He's brought you through, and it doesn't seem like it causes you any pain. I think that is a little bit of an unnatural thing, and especially if you're doing that in a way that gives, you guys, you have two options in life. Only two, here they are. You can look better and get worse, or you can look worse and get better. Which one of those is to be preferred?

— Yeah.

Look worse and get better. And here's the bonus. If you are willing to look worse and get better, you also give other people permission so that they can look worse and get better, too. And Bob, I think you cultivate that, whereas I don't feel like I need to kind of have my act all together and be all, you know, wearing a mask with you, because you have kind of already unmasked yourself, and that creates an enormous amount of freedom for the only path that can help anybody else get better.

It's enormously significant, so yes, and amen. Okay, and so that is the whole game, right? You want to wax the eloquent on that?

— Well, if you think about it, once we accept the price, we're going into recovery. And to celebrate recovery, you pick the things that are separating you from the price that are holding you back, and you work with God to overcome and by sharing, it empowers others, plus it empowers yourself.

Absolutely, right? If you couldn't hear, I'll try on the back, try to celebrate recovery, try to lead celebrate recovery here for years, before Helen kind of took, where's Helen? She's Helen's not with Ray, but she exists. And the beauty, the mechanism that Charlie's describing is that we're willing to look worse and get better and help others do so.

There's this feature in our lives where, like there's the real Tim, but I would rather you didn't actually know him. So I'm going to create this avatar of Tim, this projection of who I wish you knew, right? And then you're going to play the same game, there's the real Charlie, but we're going to keep that in a box, and we'll have this little puppet Charlie come up. And then if my puppet is talking to your puppet, then I don't actually know you, and you don't actually know me, right? And so when the scriptures describe confession, one of the benefits of confession is that our fellowship with one another, this is the first John, our fellowship with one another is enhanced, because we're getting rid of the avatars, and the actual people are realizing, yeah, you two, me two, and now there's an actual connection.

Conclusion

So facilitating that's enormously significant. Okay, spiritual gifts.

— One here.

Yeah, Nancy, go ahead. Say it again?

I'll unpack that a little encouragement.

— I mean, it's sometimes, I feel like it's a curse because I could be running and go say, go speak to this person that's not a bench that I don't know at all.

So if you're, so in courage, literally means to give courage. And so is that, would you say for you, is that you don't know what's going on in somebody's life, but you feel like the spirit is leading you, this person needs to be maybe comforted, maybe exhorted, could be any number of things. And the spirit is gonna give you some particular insight or impulse. Well, as a more impulse or insight for you, like, do you know what you're supposed to talk about? Or is it just like, hey, see where this goes?

— It's both, but I would say it's almost like a, I mean, I can see it and feel it in the sense of what they mean, and it just comes. I mean, it leads me to whatever it is.

Yes, amen. Is Massey in here? Mike, you hear? You're off being a pagan? Okay, Mike is, Mike is particularly committed to obedience while you're describing, of like interrupting his life. Like he's pretty out there and his commitment to, if he ever feels like maybe the spirit wants me to go talk to this random stranger and have this thing, he's like, his yes is on the table. And because of it, weird stuff happens to Mike all the time, because he's just willing to be obedient, even under the slightest provocation.

It's pretty, pretty amazing. You wanna add to that?

— As I say, sometimes, I mean, people even say, "I was teaching college," and she wrote a letter to the dean, and said, what she said to me kept me from committing suicide. And I was like, "Yeah, that's good." I wonder what I said. I don't even remember.

Right. And what a gift, right, that God would give you the privilege of being able to impact somebody when you didn't know anything, you didn't plan anything, you just wake up in the morning and you're like, "Lord, I assume that today there will be some assignments, some doors you want me to watch." It's kind of a, you know, Ephesians 2:10 — for God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which he prepared in advance for us to do. I don't know what they're gonna be, but am I open to say, the Spirit would lead me, guide me, let me go where you want me to go. I'd even take some risks, right? It's huge.

Moving Beyond Self to Others

Okay, how about this? No longer yourself, but just somebody else. Are there people that you'd be like, "Yeah, I have experienced this, you know, when I was a kid or in this church I used to go to or my life group leader or whatever it is, spiritual gifts and you see like, there's more going on here than meets the eye."

Eric?

— You just did a scripture memorization.

Yes.

— In our scripture, God's Word to someone else. They can encourage them, they can get them to start, want to do it, you know, bring them.

Yes, and actually it's your gift as it turns out too, 'cause I've heard you do that exact thing, Eric. Whether it's because, I don't know enough to know if it's just like, you're just incredibly disciplined to like read a memorized scripture, or if it's just effortless to you, but that very thing, I've seen that. And what a gift to others that, if the Word of God just kind of flows through you, it's on the tip of your tongue, his Word is powerful, right? It's better than the things I have to say. And if you're able to channel that, that's a gift. It's great.

A couple others? Chris?

— For highlighting and embarrassing my wife, Gina is contentability. Paul talks about that in those verses we just read about just being content in all things and her ability to, with the world's own fire, especially with me, just, I'm like, you should totally be mad at me, all reasons say, I know what I did, I'm angry at the world. And she goes, everything's fine, Chris, we're set.

Sweet Gina.

— And we just go, "How's everything?"

But in the Word.

— It's good work, Gina, right? I mean, I've been around Chris, I know. It's harder than it looks, you know? But in fact, some of you have this nature that God has given you like to be calm under distress and others you can be freaking out.

Yup. Caitlin?

— I have a situation with this moment.

Yeah?

— I have a daughter who says that she is a non-believer.

Okay, go a little bit louder, Caitlin, daughter who's a non-believer.

— The daughter has a, that's a non-believer, but I've seen her many, many times. Be incredibly empathetic to those around her and bringing a comfort that feels God given to her. Because it's just a very natural kind thing.

So can you have a spiritual gift and maybe not yet for plain Christ?

— Yeah, so this is the same question that I have. We talked about this a little bit last week because it's, and some might differ on this, but certainly on these things that are more natural, like what were you describing here whether it's compassion or mercy or administration or teaching? It's very easy to see lots of people who aren't Christians, but still have these capacities. You don't, there's not a lot of non-Christians like I can speak in tongues, you know?

So, but on these, on this side of the line, it certainly seems to me that God has been incredibly generous to lots of people in lots of different ways. I don't think we would characterize that as a spiritual gift per se because it doesn't meet all three of those tests of like benefiting the body. Although it's certainly beneficial for people who come into her path. And it might be, and what I hope it is, Caitlin, is that she will become a follower of Christ and that when she does, that that pre-existing capacity that he has given her will really flourish for the benefit of the body. That's what we would long to see be true. And that might be the way it works, but there is, the scripture doesn't say a lot about the giftings to the unbelieving world. It's just obvious from walking around outside that clearly there's tons of people. I mean, enormous gifts that are given to people who aren't currently, you know, in Christ. So, I think that's how it works, but I might go wrong. So, Adam?

— Did you take that a step further with the fruits of the spirit as well? And how we see love or patience in a non-believer and how that differs to the fruit that is produced by the Holy Spirit in a believer?

Yeah, I'd love to comment. So, Adam is asking, well, if we're saying that the gifts, plural of the spirit, might be pre-given to others or, you know, to people who aren't in Christ, is the same thing true, the fruit of the spirit. Now, here's what's curious about this. Maybe you've stumbled on this, you've tripped on this, but Paul doesn't, in Galatians five, he says the acts of the sinful nature are obvious and he describes all these, you know, things, anger, malice, whatever, all these different things. And then he shifts and he says the fruit singular of the spirit is, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, and this generous self-control.

And we usually want to describe that as the fruits, plural of the spirit, but it's one fruit. And I think one of the implications of the fact that it's one thing is that it's all of those things at once. And probably, it's probably the case that some of the things on that list are more natural to you, it's your personality. It's your Myers-Briggsness. It's your Enneagramness, whichever language you happen to speak at this particular moment, right?

And some of you are patient, right? You're just patient, but you might not be faithful because you kind of, you're great. You know, you're just low-key, you're easygoing, but you're not much of a persevering spirit. I think what Paul is describing with the fruit of the spirit is that thing, that bouquet. It's not this flower and that flower, but not this one or this one, it's the whole thing.

And that, when you see someone who is concurrently loving, and joyful, and patient, and kind, and good, all of those things at once, that's strange, right? So you could say, there are plenty of people, pick something in our culture at the moment. There are plenty of people that, regarding homosexuality, they're gonna be endlessly patient, and gentle, and kind. But they're not good because they call evil things good. Or you can have people that they're all about the moral righteousness of it, but they have no gentleness or kindness, right?

If it's really the work of the spirit, what he's producing in us is this radical thing that Jesus has to be simultaneously full of grace and full of truth. That fruit, so I would say the non-Christian world, we should not be surprised if some of those aspects of the fruit of the spirit are made manifest. But the full bouquet, that really is a work of the spirit that we would embrace all of it. It's like we are, you hear me, we just tend to be like some of the equations. Some of us are like super Mr. Truth, but not very gracious. Some of us are just grace, grace all the time, but are incapable of saying this is false. Can you do both? That's a work of the spirit, okay?

Other people you've seen with great, how much time is it? Okay, we got a few more. Okay, we got a few more. Yeah, Carlton?

— I believe that people like your police officers, first responders, that there's a natural inclination for believers to be more sacrificial or servant in those kinds of capacities. They look to protect people or rescue people and they don't know if it's a mercy or--

Encourage, yeah, mercy, courage, ability to lead, a lot of those different things are gonna flow and that's gonna be beneficial in millions of different ways. God has gifted his people in all kinds of ways.

Now here's the talk about this. If you come to the gifts, what we have to do is steward these things well. And there's a million ways to screw it up, okay? If you've been given a gift, the most obvious failure is that you just don't use it, right? You are given this gift to benefit others and it might be that you just like, yeah, I don't wanna. I'm too afraid or I'm too selfish and you don't do it. Or it could be that you're all about using it but you're using it for your own benefit. Everything I do is just gonna all lead back to my glory, my ability to accomplish, my ability to acquire resources or honor.

It could also be that you use your gift and you weaponize it against others. I think there's plenty of people who have the gift of teaching and they teach in a way that is all about getting glory for themselves. They teach in a way, maybe by the way, they're gifted teachers but they're teaching things that are false. And I'm just gonna name, I'll just give you one name. I think Rob Bell is unbelievably gifted as a teacher. He's a brilliant communicator and the dude's a heretic, okay? If you like his books, stop reading his books or you can come talk to me about that and we can complain about that to me. His stuff, what he started doing was so brilliant and so creative. His neumas stuff was so good but as time went on, he just got more and more off the reservation and I am oppositional to Rob Bell but he has a gift. He's very, very talented but I think he abuses his teaching gift.

Others in the charismatic circle, you guys, charismatic gifts are might be the most dangerous thing to abuse. Have you heard this idea that like, I don't know, a house cat can only be so good or so bad, right? A tiger can be better or worse, a man better or worse still. Some of the supernatural gifts on the charismatic side can be so unbelievably good, so incredibly helpful. If God is giving you the ability to see something that's unknowable in the natural realm that you might come along and be an encouragement, that you might, that's unbelievable good.

If you're a healer, holy cow. Like the things that could happen from that but recognize the risk of having the ability or persuading people, that you have the ability to speak for God. Do you see the enormous power risk that is there? I read a couple of books years and years ago and I loved them by Jack Deere. Is that a meaningful name to you? Not the tractor guy, okay? Not John Deere, Jack Deere, Jack used to be a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary, which is a cessationist school, meaning they don't think that any of the supernatural gifts persist, but then Jack had his own personal experience that contradicted that.

And so he's this great ambassador of the supernatural charismatic gifts to the people that are sympathetic to the Dallas framework, which is to say he's deeply grounded in the scriptures. He's incredibly reasonable and he believes that God does all these things, continues to do them. And he does a masterful job. His two books that I read were surprised by the Holy Spirit, and surprised by the voice of God. Is that right? And he basically talks, he was so helpful to me. He talks about how in the same way that you could be, you could have a teaching gift, but need to grow as a teacher. You could have a prophetic gift, but need to grow as a prophet.

For instance, he would say like, the fact that God has revealed something to you, doesn't mean you're supposed to tell anybody, not necessarily, maybe he's revealed this thing so you could pray for somebody. Or sometimes people will have prophetic visions, and maybe the gift of seeing this dream or having this image is real, but maybe you're not exactly sure what it means, or maybe you're not exactly sure how to apply it, right? And if you are reckless in that, then that could get out of hand pretty quickly. And then if you're in a community where people are accustomed to saying, well, God told me this, and God told me that, you know that Christians have this little code language, right?

There's just phrasing, you learn, when I was a college student, I learned that when you're praying, you're supposed to say Jesus' name a lot, and you're supposed to use the word just a lot. Lord Jesus, we just ask you, Lord Jesus, that you had just moved today Jesus, 'cause Lord, you just are so good Jesus, and we love you Jesus, so just move. Have you ever heard this? Okay, and then the next time, the next kid just, they just learn like, this is just how we do it, and this is what we say. Well, one of those things that people learn is, hey, whatever you wanna say, just claim that God told you, and that's just how we do it around here.

God told me to do this, and God told me to do that. Well, how do you know God told you to do that? 'Cause I wanna, right? Number one thing, the college students claim God told them, do you know what it is? That breakup. God has told me that we should break up. Really? How did he tell you that? Well, I don't like you anymore. Well, there you go, okay? (congregation laughs) And I promise you, within little pockets of Christian, we have this ability to claim stuff, write a letter, sign God's name. That is not what Paul is talking about. There's such a thing, and it's real, but there's also such a thing that is fake. And if you're playing the fake game, and people don't know that it's fake, and they think that God told me this, imagine the harm, right? That I'm disobeying God if I don't obey you.

So all of these gifts, they can be ignored, they can be misused, they can be used for our own purposes, they can be weaponized against others. And we want to be careful. If we're talking about things that the Spirit has given us, that we would really enjoy, that we'd be effective at, and that would be for the good of others. Let's be very careful that we're doing it for the good of others, and not just for our own purposes, right? That we're eagerly desiring the greater gifts, as Paul says, that we're not afraid to step into weird places because the Spirit of God is alive and active, but we're thoughtful about how we can interfere with them, because we do all the time.

Kelly?

— I've been back on the effective one.

Yes.

— Do you think it's possible that somebody might have the gift of evangelism, and they're voice-speaking of him, that they're not effective, or does that mean they don't have the gift of evangelism, then they do it, they love it, they're clear?

Yes, I think that is actually your husband. Like, I have, I mean, honestly, I don't think I have the gift of evangelism specifically because I think I'm ineffective. I'd be, maybe Andy, but I'd be surprised if anybody in this room has ever, has verbally articulated the gospel to another human being more times than I have. I've had thousands of direct conversations that were crystal clear because I'm a good teacher, but my lifetime batting average is like, "Oh, oh, one." I mean, it's like, I mean, I would leave one person to Christ a year on thousands of that bats. And so, I don't, I think, and then there's other people that just walk up to some rando and be like, "Yo, turn a burn, baby." And they're like, "Oh, I love Jesus." You know, and I'm like, "How does that happen?"

So I don't, I don't, I think I am frustratingly ineffective as an evangelist and therefore, I don't think I have the gift of evangelism.

— Yeah, I have, we need that happening then.

Yeah, I mean, that's why I do it.

Alright, you're measuring, is this a gift, whether or not I'm effective in it as the standard to determine that's a gift? And I, it has to build up the value of Christ, but there are so many seeds that have been sent and that's important to the kingdom.

— Sure.

I might still use it, you may never know. And I still think that's a gift to me.

—I have the gift of ineffective evangelism. I don't know, I don't know. (audience laughing)

Okay, so, so here, and like, I think, like, so maybe I'm wrong, we'll start there. There's always the possibility that I'm just incorrect about that. Okay, okay, but, but I learned early in this game that I know how to communicate clearly. I don't have any, I have no lack of self-confidence in my ability to communicate clearly, to understand the situation and do all this, but you guys, evangelism works because the Spirit of God alive in its dead hearts, right?

And I learned early in my career with crew that like, I can do this, I can train this, I can do all this kind of stuff, but like, and I do. I mean, I have to share my faith thousands of times and seen tens of people. 20 in my life, you know, come to Christ. And so, but the fact that I'm particularly ineffective never discouraged me from doing it because I'm obedient, right? And so even if, even if I don't have the gift of prayer, so what about that? Pray, even if I don't have the gift of hospitality for crying out loud, be nice to people, let them in your house, you know?

So, okay, you can all disagree with me. Everybody hates me right now. Carol, you can go next.

— I learned very early in a Bible study here at the church many, 20 some years ago that we can plant, we can harvest, we can, we don't always see, we are not, we water, but we don't always see what we plan to. It's not, that's not it. You've had the privilege to see 10 or 20, but you're planting and you're watering. That doesn't mean you've been given the right to see.

— Amen, and that's good, we'll, we shall plant. But it's more fun to see somebody come to Christ. Well, thank you. DFP.

— I wanna push back and kind of highlight a, not a contradiction, but a difficulty.

— Yeah.

— You said that, okay, gifts, you know, there's no credit for gifts.

So, given the gifts, and that's it, and we can get better in the maturity with how we handle the gifts. We can grow in the effectiveness, in our response to ourselves. We can grow in our willingness to look foolish.

— That's true.

— So, we are not the source of the gift. And yet, our response to the gift, gifts, plural, does change how they are used, does change the effect that they have on the kingdom. And I think that there are times that it is appropriate to say to someone, you know, wow, Tim, you're an excellent teacher. It's because of what you've done with that gift in part.

— Yes, okay.

— We're given.

— Yes, I think that is right. So, look at this, just go to 1 Corinthians 15. What you're saying here, I think it captures. 1 Corinthians 15, here's what Paul says. And I think this captures your framing of it. It says, four, this is verse nine.

For I am the least of the apostles, and I do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But check this out. But by the grace of God, I am what I am.
It's like it's a gift, is that it's doing anything? I would have been murdering people who are up to me. And then he says, but his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them. So he's like, listen, I was screwing this up huge. God was gracious to redeem me. And so he gets all the credit. Then he's like, however, however, his grace was not without effect. I worked harder than all of them. But then he comes back around, yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether then it was I or they, this is what we preach and this is what you believed.

So he's saying that like, God gives a gift. We respond to that gift working hard, but even the ability to respond and to work hard, that too is a gift, right? And so yes, I agree. But ultimately, we didn't get to pick our eye color. I didn't get to be a teacher because I deserved to be a teacher. He was just gracious to say, hey, I think you're gonna really enjoy explaining things. I'm gonna give you an ability to see them first so that you can make it clear to others. Go. And I'm like, okay, that sounds fun. And then you get better at it when you do anything for 10,000 hours, you should get better at it, or you should go do something else, you know, right? And so it is for all of us, right? Amen, amen.

Conclusion

Okay, we gotta stop. Church is coming. So thanks for coming. We'll see you next week.

— Thanks for being here.

People chattering.