Sunday School | 1 Timothy Part II

Morning, everybody. Welcome back. Glad you're here. Yes, indeed.

So we are going to be continuing this morning. We're not doing a new book. If you've been here, then you know that we're doing one New Testament book a week. Last week we looked at 1 Timothy. This week, we're going to look at 1 Timothy again.

Bob Blacksmith made about 35 extra copies in case you didn't get one last week. If you got one last week, please refrain from taking one this week. But if you didn't get one and you want one, Bob's got them. Bob is the guy in the green sweater running around—he'll hook you up with last week's. Some folks in the back, Becky, grab those. Then we'll get started.

I'll tell you what we're doing as Bob gets those scattered about. Every week, there's this accordion folder briefcase thing up here with every lesson we've ever done for these New Testament summaries. So if you want to grab one, you can grab it now or later, whatever you want.

Alright, you guys about ready? If you were here last week, you may have noticed a couple things. One, the microphones are broken, so I'm avoiding using the over-the-ear mic. We're going to go handheld. But the problem with the handheld is that I forget and then it drifts. You can always just rebuke me throughout the hour. Just say, "Eat the mic." You can remind me and maybe I'll remember.

Second thing you may have noticed if you were here last week is that we didn't really finish. We looked at 1 Timothy and did what we always do—a broad overview. But 1 Timothy is a book very interested in doctrine. It's very interested in getting things right, and it includes some pretty spicy passages, some pretty confusing passages. We began to talk about that, but we didn't really finish, and I left it ambiguous. I wasn't sure if we were going to move on to the next book, which my plan was to do Philemon. We'll do that next week—I think we have class next week. Yeah, we're going to do Philemon next week. But I got some requests to not move on, but to kind of finish looking at these confusing passages. And so that's what we're going to do.

If you happen to be just kind of air dropping in and don't have the context, we're going to be looking at 1 Timothy, chapter 2. This is the passage we're going to explain and talk about.

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived. It was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness and with propriety. — 1 Timothy 2:11-15

So there's that, right? This is one of those passages that has caused an enormous amount of confusion and frustration and disagreement and debate. What I told you guys last week is when you find strange texts, don't just turn the page. We have a very strong ability to say, "I don't know what that means. Therefore it must not mean anything." And we just turn the page. Are you familiar with this phenomenon? We don't want to do that. I don't want to just say, "Well I don't know," shrug our shoulders, and move on. We want to slow down and take a look at it and see what it says.

There are a couple other weird things in 1 Timothy 2 that we didn't get to, but I'm not sure if we'll get to them. I think this might be about enough for one day. As always, before I tell you what I think is going on here and what rules we should follow to really make good sense of what God says in his word, what do you guys think of that passage? What do you think it means? What does it sound like? What have you heard?

I'm not going to let you guys talk the whole hour because then we may not land the plane at all. But I'd love to hear it. Coming out of the gate, anybody want to open the bidding on what Paul was meaning to communicate with all this? Love to hear your sense of it. Andy, you want to come up? You can co-teach this with me? You sure? Okay, good. Gary?

Gary: I think Paul was offering his opinion, especially verse 2. He says, "I do not allow a woman to teach." So you're saying that you think what Paul is offering here is a private word but in some way maybe not bringing divine authority to that comment?

He didn't say "thus says the Lord, a woman is not allowed to be a college professor." So I think what maybe the unspoken thing is that on a surface level of this, it sounds like all women should be silent. As soon as you walk through this door, like everybody button your lip, right? There's something about that that you find either distasteful or unlikely to be true. And so you're saying well maybe he didn't mean that as universally as it might sound. And maybe he was just speaking out of personal conviction rather than as scripture at this point.

Some people have had that same sense of like, "What I think it says, it can't say, so let me find an alternative." I don't think that's ultimately true. I think that all scripture is God breathed. I think that is scripture and it comes with that divine authority. Paul doesn't usually do that. But I do think we want to make sure we get it right. So this is good. But I want to thank you for having the courage to start.

Robin, could you be a little bit louder please?

So Robin is observing this phenomenon that Gary mentioned—there are places in First Corinthians in particular where Paul says, "Thus says the Lord" and then "Thus says me." Where he very explicitly draws a distinction, saying, "Well this is kind of my take on this, but I'm not speaking with divine authority here." There's a place where he does that. That's true. Although what he's actually—we're not teaching First Corinthians 7 right now, so we're not going to go there. But you're right. That's a phenomenon. But we don't see those tags happening here in First Timothy 2.

Different Roles

Virgil, at a minimum, I think he's saying that there are different roles between the genders both in marriage and in the church. Beyond that, I'm not sure—I'm sort of a mechanic. I don't get it all, but at a minimum, there are different roles.

So Virgil, in case you couldn't hear—he's saying that it seems like at a minimum Paul is making an affirmation or functioning out of a worldview that affirms that there are distinct roles for men and women in the family and in the church. And then beyond that, I'm not sure because it seems like maybe he's saying more than that, and I'm not sure what to do with the more of that.

Marty?

So in case you couldn't hear that, Marty is saying if all we had from Paul on the roles of women was just these two or three verses, then it might leave us with a very narrow take. But if you broaden it out and say what do we know about Paul and what does he say in other contexts? What do we see as his pattern of behavior regarding women in ministry—which is really what this passage is about—then it could constrain or you might say it expands the possibilities of what he could mean here. And I think that's right. I'll have more to say about that in a minute.

Tommy?

So what Tom is saying is this—he sees that much of this instruction is an obligation of men as much as a prohibition for women. Because when Paul cites Genesis, when he cites the fall, what was going on in the fall was the silence of Adam, the neglect of Adam. And so Adam's silence or Adam's passivity in the garden is a major contributor to Eve's foolish decision. And so Tommy is just wondering aloud, could this—in saying that women ought not to teach—could this really just be the flip side of the coin to call men out of their passivity to step up and play the role they're supposed to play?

It's great. Zach, you get the last shot and then I'll start to try to glue it all together.

So Zach is pointing out a famous passage that is about women, although even that is a little bit misunderstood. Proverbs 31 is ultimately about wisdom—woman is personified as wisdom. But we could find plenty of places in scripture that affirm the roles of women. And so anything scripture says in one place will—this is really important—will not be contradicted in another place. And so how do we make sense when we have what we call an antinomy? That means an apparent contradiction. How do we resolve it?

What do we do with that? That's pretty similar to what Marty was saying. Kelly Sue, okay, that's really—so I'll just try to restate what Kelly's saying there.

Very often when we approach the scriptures, and this happens regarding women, but it also happens regarding all people, we have a tendency to overlink value and role. So we'll say if you have a superior role, meaning you have more authority, then you have superior value. And that is a faulty equation.

Our chief way that we see the absolute inviolability of this is that Jesus has a subordinate role to the Father. He says, "I've not come to do my will, but the will of him who sent me." And yet the Son is equal in value to the Father. So it is possible, and in fact it is necessary, that you can have a subordinate role but equal value.

Very often when we get into a question about whether there are any constraints or obligations on the roles of men or the roles of women, we transfer that in our mind to "there's a subordinate role," and then we think "there's not just a subordinate role but there is a subordinate value." We're off the path, and that's going to make it very hard for us to gladly accept a subordinate role when we know our own value is not being diminished. That's a really important principle.

Understanding Paul's Intent Through Timothy's Perspective

Let me take all this stuff and glue it together. Whenever we're coming to the scriptures, it's necessarily the case, especially in the epistles, that you're reading somebody else's mail. Now we are recipients of this because Scripture has two authors. This is not only a letter from Paul to Timothy, but it is also a letter from the Lord to you. So I don't want you to over-realize the fact that you're reading somebody else's mail, but it was also literally written from Paul to Timothy.

What that means is that Timothy knew things that you don't know. Paul wrote to Timothy and Timothy knew Paul. He had a relationship with Paul. He had shared time with Paul. And what that means is that Timothy has a distinct advantage over us in understanding this letter because he knew what Paul thought about women in ministry. He knew what Paul practiced. He had seen and directly observed it. He'd experienced this. He'd had conversation with him. He'd been in ministry opportunities. He was very familiar with those things.

When we come to these letters—and we should do this all the time, but we're particularly incentivized to do so on passages that are tricky, difficult, or confusing—before we jump into a narrow framing on just this verse, we want to zoom out and be like, "Okay, how would Timothy have understood this?" Timothy's understanding would be shaped by what he knew to be true about Paul's view of women. So let's do that. Let's give that a minute.

What do we know about Paul's view of women in ministry outside of this passage that Timothy also would have known and that would have colored and shaped his experience and understanding of Paul's true meaning? Do you understand the process there? So what else do you know about Paul's view of women in ministry? His practice of women in ministry?

Kelly Sue? Beginning with chapter 1, verse 17, he's really grateful for Lois and Eunice in the role in Timothy's life. Alright, so isn't that interesting? Even if we just limit ourselves to his letters to Timothy, if we were to go to 2 Timothy, take a look at what he's going to say as he begins this letter to Timothy about two women in his life.

I am reminded of your sincere faith which first lived in your grandmother Lois and in your mother Eunice and I am persuaded now lives in you also. — 2 Timothy 1:5

Timothy learned the gospel from his mother and from his grandmother, which we can presume with high degree of confidence were women. And then he's going to say later on, listen to this:

But as for you Timothy, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of because you know those from whom you learned it. And how from infancy you have known the holy scriptures which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. — 2 Timothy 3:14

Who are those from whom Timothy learned it? When he was an infant, who was teaching Timothy the scriptures? His mother and his grandmother. So Paul knows, Timothy knows that Paul has seen the transfer of biblical information from one person to another in Timothy's own life at the hands of women. That's one of the factors he knows. It's great. What else? What would Timothy know Paul knows about this? What he thinks about this? How he practices this?

Yeah, I think of Priscilla and Aquila and how they work with Paul. Often her name was even mentioned first. So if we look at this couple, Priscilla and Aquila, they are this godly couple. Acts 18 is not a letter from Paul, but you gotta know Luke—the hero of Luke's life is Paul. Luke loves Paul. And Paul is very often with Luke in these missionary journeys. When Luke records how this whole thing carries out, in Acts 18:26, it says:

When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately. — Acts 18:26

So Priscilla and Aquila together become teachers in Apollos' life. Where else do you see other places where Paul affirms and utilizes women in different roles for ministry?

Kelly suggests Romans 16 is a great kind of amalgam of things. If you look at it, you've got all of this glorious doctrine in the first eight to nine or ten chapters depending how you count it. Then from chapter 12 on, you've got all the great application. But chapter 16 is just straight up personal notes that feels to be very low relevance. But it's not. All Scripture is God-breathed. So let's go there.

Paul's never been to Rome, but Rome's like New York City. There's just people coming through, they're here, they're there. And he knows a lot of people in Rome. Listen to this. He says in verse one:

I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchrea, and I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you for she has been the benefactor of many people including me. — Romans 16:1-2

What is he saying? What do the recipients of the letter to Rome know about Phoebe? Paul trusted her to the point that she's the one delivering the letter. She probably had memorized it and was probably going to be speaking it. We don't know that for certain, but that was standard operating procedure.

When he says, "I want you to receive Phoebe in a way worthy of the Lord," that's because she's showing up with Romans in her pocket. She is the mailman. She is the deliverer of this letter. And as the deliverer of this letter, the first time Romans—the greatest thing ever written in the history of the world—was read was almost certainly in a higher tenor. It was read by a woman. It was read by Phoebe. She shows up and delivers this message to Rome. And Paul says, be nice to Phoebe because I love this woman. She's been incredibly useful and incredibly helpful to me.

We start there in Romans 16. Then we keep going. Priscilla and Aquila:

Greet them, my coworkers in Christ Jesus. They risk their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful for them. — Romans 16:3-4

If you keep going through we could see a whole bunch of names. Verse six:

Greet Mary who worked very hard for you. — Romans 16:6

Andronicus and Junia in verse seven—it's unclear if Junia is male or female. We just don't know. It's ambiguous but might be a woman. If you scroll down through, we're gonna find verse 12 explicitly:

Greet Trifena and Triphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord. — Romans 16:12

Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord and his mother, who's been a mother to me too. — Romans 16:13

You can go down to verse 15:

Greet Philologus, Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas, and all the people who are with me. — Romans 16:15

It's filled with both men and women that were coworkers of Paul. They were engaged in the ministry of Paul. All over the place, including most preeminently Phoebe, the deliverer of Romans.

Understanding Paul's Intent

So Timothy knows this. When Timothy gets this letter and he's going to interpret it, here's what we're not attempting to do: we're not attempting to erase this. Paul meant something. We want to figure out accurately what he meant. We will not be a church that crosses out the parts of the Bible that we don't find comfortable. It means something.

We just want to figure out accurately what it means. And understanding Paul's vantage point on women in ministry is highly relevant as we seek to be accurate in understanding what's going on. Are we doing alright so far?

There was a hand back here. Harry?

Harry's question: This goes back to all the women you just mentioned were preaching and teaching of God. But weren't the women of Ephesus?

Okay, so what Harry is saying—this is great. We're looking at what Paul thinks about women in ministry. And Romans 16 is a great place to mind that. But Harry is saying, shouldn't we also be concerned about the local context in Ephesus? Timothy is the pastor in Ephesus. What was going on? Timothy doesn't just know Paul, but Timothy knows his own version of Ephesus. He knows what's going on.

And so remember, I've said this before: the letters of the New Testament have an attribute we call them "occasional." And occasional does not mean intermittent. It does not mean sporadic. What it means is they're written for an occasion. Somebody wrote it to somebody else for a reason. There was something going on in the life and context of the recipient of that letter, and we have to reverse engineer what was the problem to which Timothy, or to which Paul, is offering a solution.

What Harry is doing is putting his finger on: wasn't there something going on in Ephesus where the women were getting out of hand and Paul was writing to correct that? And the answer is yes. You're exactly right. And Timothy knows more about it than we do, but we can still get a few clues.

One of the ways you can get a clue is if you go to later in 1 Timothy. Do you remember what he says? There's a very extended passage about widows. And in particular, they're being generous to widows but a little bit prematurely. What he's going to say is this:

As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list for when their sensual desire overcomes their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. They bring judgment on themselves because they've broken their first pledge. Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also busybodies who talk nonsense, saying things they ought not to. So I counsel the younger women to marry, have children, manage their homes, give the enemy no opportunity to slander. — 1 Timothy 5:11-14

Now, there are other places in this letter we're not going to look at for the sake of time where he's critiquing the specific failings of men. Men are failing, women are failing. In all of his letters he constantly puts his finger on, "Hey, stop that. Don't do that anymore. Get along. Stop saying things that aren't true." But it seems that here in Ephesus, and similarly in Corinth, there had been some band of women who gathered up and were causing all kinds of mess. And Timothy knows that. And Paul's restriction doesn't explain the entire story, but part of the story is to understand that.

Lily's question: So Ephesus, the goddess that they primarily worshipped was Artemis, right? That's right. Fertility. And so she was the one people would actually pilgrimage there in order to be under her protection in the course of childbirth. But also, it seems valuable to note—at least it's my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong—that all of the letters that Paul writes where there are expressed admonitions for women are to Greek congregations. Is that true? Whereas you don't find that in the Roman or Jewish congregations. And that's indicating that he's correcting different issues.

Great, all great insight, Lily. So Lily's pointing out—this is pretty important. In Ephesus, the Greeks basically had a million gods. They're polytheists. There's a scene you find in the book of Acts where Paul goes to Ephesus and the crowd shouts for literally hours. Do you remember what their refrain was that they just kept repeating?

Great is Artemis of the Ephesians. — Acts 19:28

Great is Artemis of the Ephesians. Great is Artemis of the Ephesians. For hours they just carry on like this, drowning out the preaching of the gospel. And so it does make sense that here in this particular community in Ephesus, they have a deified woman who they are very fond of. And this, you can imagine, could have quite a distorting impact, right?

So local context matters. None of these—these are all clues. None of these answer the question.

But these are all clues that help us get on the right track. Let me give you one more that you guys haven't mentioned for the sake of time. How are we doing? That is in Corinthians, in the letter to the Corinthian church, Paul explicitly affirms female what's? Do you know? Prophets. Okay. So if you look here, if you want to flip to it, he's talking about the ways that prophecy must be carried out. And he's going to say in chapter 11 that every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head. I preached on this a couple, I don't know, maybe a year ago. What's going on with this head covering thing? But what you can see there in 1 Corinthians 11, he is affirming the female prophetesses. And that is consistent, of course, with Acts 2:

In the last days God says, I will pour out my spirit on all people, your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. — Acts 2

In Acts 21, there's a man who has four unmarried daughters who prophesied. Okay. So we have all kinds of places where we see women having significant roles both inside the walls of a church and outside the walls of a church. Right? Paul knows it. Paul affirms it. Timothy knows that. And he is going to have all of that in his mind when he reads Paul saying what he's saying. Right?

Now, he might also know that in that same letter, it's interesting—Lilly's observation—like to the Greeks. In that same letter to the Corinthians, he said something very similar to what he says here in 1 Timothy. In 1 Corinthians 14:33, he says:

For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but they must be in submission as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. — 1 Corinthians 14:33-35

And notice, he said, "as in all the congregations of the saints." He is saying it to the Greeks, but he's saying it broadly.

So you have this prohibition here in 1 Corinthians 14 on the heels of an affirmation of women being prophets just three chapters earlier. And then you've got this universe of women that have significant roles. And it is our job to take this all together and say, okay, so what now? What is the answer that makes sense of all of this disparate information? And we don't get to ignore the parts that we don't like. We don't get to ignore the parts that don't fit into our narrative. You guys live in a world driven by narratives. Right? You know the media can choose to tell you this story but not tell you this story. They want to give you part of the story so that you will believe their story. We don't get to do that. We get the whole narrative and whatever answer we come up with has to make sense of the totality of what God has revealed. That is the difficulty of our task. That's why we say that the Bible rewards diligent study because it requires diligent study. You with me?

Okay. Kelly? The 1 Corinthians 14 passage, verse requiring in all congregations, whether to be silent. You have to acknowledge the greater context of that. And so it's couched in that context. And so it, again, you have to understand that three chapters earlier does permit him to prophesy. So it's not about the disruption that women in that context might have been creating if they're doing it in a disorderly way or I don't know. You can refine it.

Yeah. Okay. That's great. So Kelly's just making the point that just like in Ephesus, there was a specific problem that Paul was writing to. He's writing into a context to say this thing's getting out of hand, tighten this up. In Corinth, there similarly was chaos—they were just going crazy on all the supernatural stuff. Like Corinth is the place where we get the best teaching on prophecy, tongues, and these kinds of things. And it's because the Corinthians were messing it up. And so he's got to write into that to speak to that and bring a solution. Okay? So for the sake of time, we gotta—and I want to get—we haven't even gotten to the childbearing thing. And my clock is ticking here. So let me say this: what do we do with all of it?

Making Sense of It All

Here's the way—here's what I would encourage you to do. It's not meaningless. Okay? So we start there. We're not going to say, "Well, whatever, blow it off." But nor can it possibly be as absolute as it might seem at first glance. Right? It can't be absolute because we've already affirmed female prophets in numerous ways. Right? I think we specifically do not affirm female priests. I can explain that in a second. Given the roles that he's given women to play, just hang out in Romans 16.

It can't be that. So what do we do? I think it's this. And I'm gonna actually quote from a document that I'll make available to you guys. There is an organization called the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, CBMW. For my money those guys are the gold standard on these sorts of questions. It was started by Wayne Grudem and John Piper, two very thoughtful theologians who I admire a great deal. Doesn't mean I agree with everything everyone has ever said or done, but I really think when it comes to executing the scriptures, they are generally very trustworthy people. They started this organization CBMW. You can go to cbmw.org and look at it.

And there was a document that Bob has and it's just called "50 Questions on Something." I just printed 25 copies of it because it's like 30 pages long and I didn't think everyone would want it. But they will be available. In fact, Bob, we'll just put them up here at this front table. Okay. So I'm gonna quote a brief passage from them on this. And here's what they said about this:

What Paul is calling for is not the total silence of women, but a kind of involvement that signifies in various ways their glad affirmation of the leadership of the men that God has called to be guardians and overseers of the flock.

That statement—that affirmation—is really related to something Virgil said earlier on. There are other passages in the scripture that I think are pretty clear that God has reserved primary roles of authoritative teaching of the scriptures to men. That's why in this context, in an Anglican context, we gladly affirm female deacons. Because I believe the scriptures gladly affirm female deacons. We do not gladly affirm female priests because it seems to me very clear that the rules for elders, presbyters, or bishops—episcopas—are restrained, constrained in the scriptures to men.

I think there's a reason that God had Jesus call 12 men to be disciples and clearly had women engaged in ministry. Jesus was supported by—look at the opening paragraphs in Luke 8. Jesus's whole ministry is supported by women. There's all kinds of roles for women. There's all kinds of places where women are serving. But he has reserved primary leadership in the family and the church for men.

I think that what the CBMW guys are saying, and I think they're exactly right, is there is a sort of silence. It's not an absolute silence, but there is a particular role that men are to play and that women are to play. And he seeks to affirm that in numerous places even as he invites and blesses and praises God for and depends upon the meaningful contributions of women in numerous contexts. It is not an absolute silence by any means. It couldn't possibly be. But it's not meaningless. God has reserved the primary teaching and authoritative leading of his church to men. And he has placed men in a chief position of primary leadership.

Kelly and I lead our family together. We lead our children together. And I could not possibly do it without her. But in the final analysis of all things, God will hold me accountable for my family in a way that he does not hold Kelly accountable. Not that she has none, but I have a primary role. That is true in families and in churches. And I think that if we made a total picture of all that Paul is saying, that's the conclusion that you would come to.

Now if—and I'm gonna bias this to those of you that would say, I'm not sure that I buy that. I would like you to grab a copy of this document. And if we run out, I'll print more. These guys walk through 50 questions about this. It's so thoughtful and the way that they work through things—every time I look at this and reread it, I'm just so impressed by their thoughtful, gracious clarity with which they execute the scriptures on these questions. Cbmw.org, this printed document—grab them and if we run out I'll make more.

Now I've got like five minutes and we haven't even gotten into childbirth. So let me do this. If you feel like we've gotten out of it, look at verse 15:

But women will be saved through childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, and with propriety. — 1 Timothy 2:15

Like my goodness. Thank you Paul. Alright. What are we to make of that? Here's what I want you to notice and forgive me if I go a little bit quick. There's more ambiguity to this statement than you might have initially noticed. There's all kinds of ambiguity. What does he mean by saved? Does he mean forgiven of your sins and granted eternal life? Does he mean rescued from physical harm?

What does it mean to be saved? What does it mean when he says "through"? Prepositions, especially in Greek, are stretchy things. Does it mean you're saved by childbearing? It might mean that you're saved from childbearing. You're saved through. What does that mean? Even childbearing. Does that mean giving birth? Does that mean raising children? Does it mean something else? Who is the "they"? What's the antecedent if they continue? Is it the mothers that continue? Is it the children that continue? Is it the women that continue? What is it? There's all sorts of things that are ambiguous.

And there's something that's not ambiguous but hidden. There's an invisible detail that you'd never see it in English. But did you know, in fact, there's a detail in the Greek—the first Timothy 2:15. That's our verse. And what you might notice, if you look over the part that I have highlighted in blue, right, is that there's a definite article in front of childbirth. What it more literally says is "women will be saved through the childbirth." Isn't that interesting?

Now, I am nothing close to a Greek scholar. Not even close at all. But I have friends who are, and I am told that this does not necessitate but it makes possible—according to the Greek grammar, it makes possible—that he's not just talking about all 9,000,000,000 times that somebody has given birth, but it's referring to a particular time that somebody gave birth. Which is interesting.

So again, without walking through everything that it might possibly mean, I think we can do this. We can rule out: it does not mean, 100%, it does not mean we're going to completely set aside everything the Bible says everywhere else and teach that women will have their sins forgiven and be granted eternal life if they get pregnant, carry the child to term, and give birth. There is zero percent chance that that is what it means. Can we agree on that much? We're going to rule that out.

I think it means this. I think Paul has just said some difficult things and he knows it. He has just put his finger on the fact that there's a bunch of women doing a bunch of stupid things and they need to knock it off because it's harming the gospel. He says this often to men as well. So don't feel singled out. In this particular moment he's going after the women; sometimes he's going after the men.

The New Testament, for instance, usually lays the breaking of the world at the feet of men. If you go to Romans chapter five, it's going to say:

Sin entered the world through one man and death through sin. And this way death came to all men. — Romans 5

But the next verse is Adam sinned by breaking a command. We usually blame the breaking of the world on men. But if you go and you actually watch the tape, Eve is the one who had this conversation. And in this moment, in this particular description of it, Paul blames Eve. And that is demoralizing. Romans five is demoralizing to men. And First Timothy two is demoralizing to women.

Although I think this next verse of the childbirth thing is weird and we're like, "What are you talking about?" I think that what Paul is doing is he is softening the blow. He's saying, all is not lost and we are not without hope.

It's a little bit like what C. S. Lewis does near the end of The Magician's Nephew. In that case, the Adam or the Eve, if you will, was a boy named Digory. And Digory led to the breaking of Narnia. He admitted the snake, the witch, into this new world. Listen to what Lewis says to them:

You see, friends, that before the new clean world that I gave you is seven hours old, a force of evil has already entered it, waked and brought hither by the son of Adam. The beasts, even Strawberry and all, turned their eyes on Digory till he felt that he wished the ground would swallow him up. But do not be cast down, said Aslan, still speaking to the beasts. Evil will come of that evil, but it is still a long way off. And I will see to it that the worst of it falls upon myself. In the meantime, let us take such order that for many hundred years, this shall be a merry land and a merry world. And as Adam's race has done the harm, Adam's race shall help to heal it.

And he gives Digory a task. Paul is communicating a similar message, I think. It's a message of reassurance. He's invoking the language of the curse from Genesis three in which Adam and Eve both had a part to play in the ruination of all things.

We're gonna start Genesis 3, just in verse 10, where God is interviewing Adam and Eve after they fell.

Adam answered, "I heard you in the garden and I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid." And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?" And the man said, "The woman that you put here with me, she gave me some of the fruit from the tree and I ate it." And the Lord God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" And the woman said, "The serpent deceived me and I ate." So the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals. You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. And I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your offspring and hers. Hear this: he will crush your head and you will strike his heel." — Genesis 3:10-15

That last bit, that verse 15, that's what we call the proto-evangelion—it's the proto-gospel. It is the first depiction of the atoning work of Christ. It is the first hint of God's plan to redeem. And the details are vague. All we know at this point is that a woman is going to give birth to a male son and this male son will kill the snake. And in the process, himself be killed. That is the first hint. The details are gonna get played out over centuries to come.

You may have seen this image before—Virgil, you meant throwing up the Adam, the Eve and Mary shot? Right there. You see, these things tend to show up around Christmas. Because just like Adam blew it, in Romans 5, we hear that the new Adam has come to do well what the old Adam did badly. In that same way, Eve blew it. But a new woman would come who would give birth to the promised son, and it won't always be so bad.

I think that Paul is saying here that though men share in the shame of Adam's sin, so do the women. We share in Adam's sin, we share in Eve's sin, but all is not lost. That the childbirth that was promised to happen has in fact happened. It has come. This child that was promised long ago saves us all.

Look at the details here, you guys. Just take a look at that for a minute. What you'll find is Eve is downcast in her shame with a fruit in her hand and the snake wrapping itself around her leg. And there's Mary consoling her, holding her hand and holding her hand against her own abdomen to feel the baby that grows within. While Mary is depicted as crushing the serpent's head. And of course, it's not Mary that's gonna crush the serpent's head. It is the son that she is bringing forth. But she has a crucial role in that.

And then notice the gaze. Look at Eve's gaze at Mary—not Mary's face, but Mary's abdomen, which contains a womb, which contains a baby that Mary will adore like every mother loves her baby, but who will be brutally killed to atone for Eve's rebellion. And thereby, we can all be saved, men and women, as we continue in faith and love and with holiness.

You guys, a man and a woman were both involved in the breaking of the world. And a man and a woman have each had a role in the redemption of it. And as Lewis says, "I will see to it that the worst of it falls on myself. And as Adam's race has done the harm, Adam's race shall help to heal it."

I think that what Paul is saying to these women that he's just kinda slapped and smacked and said, "Stop it," is but hang on, don't be downcast. Right? All is not lost. There is a role that we all have to play in the redemption of the world. And it's crucial that we play our roles well.

Kelly, did you wanna add something, babe?

For sure. I think that when we invoke this language of the—what Kelly's pointing out is that the particular curse for Eve was childbearing. Like, it is through childbearing that the redemption will come. But childbearing is going to be painful, right? And I think it points to the very nature of our redemption—it's painful. It's painful for Eve. It was painful for Mary and it's been painful for many of you. Right? And so God has made a world in which there can be suffering and pain. And one of the reasons that there is suffering and pain in this world is so that the Messiah could come and suffer and die for the atonement of the world. And that's what's happening here.

I think he's telling us, you guys, don't be downcast. Yeah, the world is broken. And we add to the breaking of it all the time. And yet all is not lost. For the men and for the women, there's a role that we play.

Conclusion

Okay, we gotta stop because I'm long again. Now, let me say this: you wanna grab one of these documents? Grab them. I think it's so brilliant, it's wise and insightful. I hope you will. If we run out, I'll make more.

Second thing, real quick—personal note. I have like 500 different jobs and I need to tell you about one of them. Okay?

One of my jobs is as soon as this class is over, I gotta go over to the ramp and greet and welcome people in. And we think it's incredibly important that we be a friendly and welcoming church. Every Sunday I get inundated by people that wanna talk to me after class and I can't get over here. And it puts me in really strong personal tension because every pastor's job is to persuade every individual that they are the only individual and I have all the time in the world for you. But I don't actually, really genuinely don't.

So I'm gonna put this microphone down every week and run to that ramp before you can talk to me. And it is not because I don't love you, but because I have an obligation to go be welcoming and friendly in particular to the new people. So don't take offense, but I gotta go.